KDE With Theoretical Client-Side Decorations, Windows 10 Influence

[signersv]

I do know there's a shortcut key for this, but 1) this requires unnecessary extra user action (keyboard), and 2) most users simply don't know this. Especially those coming from Windows, or your average aunt/grandma/parent. Or kids growing up with Android or Win8 (ghasp!), where everything is full-screen and completely lacks the concept of resizability, let alone shortcuts.

You can also right click on the titlebar, then select more actions -> resize.

Is it currently possible to resize windows with ease in KDE? I'm still looking for a WM/DE that allows me to resize windows without going on a pixel hunt. With easy I mean having at least 4 pixels hotspot *inside* the window frame (like Windows has had since 3.11).

If it's too small for you you can go to Window Manager Settings -> Window Decorations -> Configure Decoration and change Border Size. If you choose "oversized" you get a lot more than 4 pixels.

[gens]

@gens:

I do know there's a shortcut key for this, but 1) this requires unnecessary extra user action (keyboard), and 2) most users simply don't know this. Especially those coming from Windows, or your average aunt/grandma/parent. Or kids growing up with Android or Win8 (ghasp!), where everything is full-screen and completely lacks the concept of resizability, let alone shortcuts.

And the keyboard shortcut is *not* a solution, it is a merely workaround for this (unnecessary) problem. Window resizing has always been there in most Linux DEs, it was just never made user friendly (for reasons unclear to me).

If you need a manual/reference for *any* GUI, then the GUI is failing its purpose. A GUI is supposed to *be* a guide to an application's total functionality ('window resizing' here). Keyboard shortcuts, in this case, fail the 'discoverability' rule of UI design, because you have to know they exist before you can look for them.

And note that you've had to look it up, and that it varies per DE/WM.

(Also, I'm pretty sure the keyboard shortcuts were historically intended for window manipulation on machines without a pointing device.)

ppl coming from windows would get lost with a bare bone WM anyway
i, myself, find it easier to resize/move using the keyboard
and why not just make a window with hints on usage that runs on start and with a "don't show this again" button

anyway i find openbox's decorations to be good enough for resizing/moving (bottom resize thingy is ~2 pixels here, idk if it scales)
idk with many other WM's, other then that E lets you make the decorations bigger

default keys are only different on 2 out of ~6 WM's


bdw ppl, window decorations are windows in X

[uid313]

KDE can do everything you never wanted to do and just gets in the way of what you're trying to do.

KDE is obnoxious with its feature creep and way too many buttons, toolbars, menus, everywhere.

KDE is the most cluttered desktop environment ever.

The inspiration for KDE.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

I'm fine with client side decorations unless we end up with applications that look like this:

Pretty much KDE 3 and 4 are chalk full of butt ugly UI decisions.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

KDE can do everything you never wanted to do and just gets in the way of what you're trying to do.

KDE is obnoxious with its feature creep and way too many buttons, toolbars, menus, everywhere.

KDE is the most cluttered desktop environment ever.

The inspiration for KDE.

Agreed.

[Remdul]

You're confused. The keyboard shortcut for resizing is the correct way to do it. Average user wants fullscreen apps so the resize icons should be hidden to avoid confusion. Average user only needs minimize / maximize. For power users there's the shortcut. Everyone (power users) has known the shortcut. Maybe you're happier with a touch interface?

You're confused. Please read my earlier post in this thread. As I mentioned earlier, I've coded a windowing/GUI library before, surely that would qualify as a 'power user'?
I also think it is very short sighted to just reject constructive suggestions by questioning end-user intelligence. You are suggesting to dumbing down the interface, because three instead of two buttons in the title bar will confuse a user? Users aren't that stupid, and I say that as someone who's designed plenty of UIs and have gotten a lot of feedback (some bad, but of often rather insightful!). Victim blaming is for losers, try to be more constructive.

And this has *nothing* to do with touch interfaces, but rather looking at how easy resizing windows is on Windows, and Linux DEs failing to copy that succes. (Although KDE seems fine, judging by some comments in this thread, so excuse the now off-topic rant.)

I should add...the reason that one might not know about the resize shortcut for example is this: in most applications, the shortcut is hinted at in menus (right hand side of most items). This is lacking in most (some?) Linux DE/WMs, when I right-click on the title bar/window frame. Therefor, the functionality is not discoverable, and the unknowing user is left with glitchy border grabbing, and all the frustration that brings. Thus programmer error, not user error.

ppl coming from windows would get lost with a bare bone WM anyway

I respectfully disagree. People new to Linux don't install bare bones distros anyway, and Ubuntu/Mint/etc are quite ready for the desktop (compared to Win8 anyway ) for average users. My nearly illiterate n00b dad didn't even notice I replaced the failing WinXP install with Ubuntu back in the day. His only comment was that windows were harder to resize (I guess that makes him a hardcore 'power user' just like you caligula! ) on 'this new Windows version' .

Really, window resizing is very very basic feature of a DE/WM, and there's no excuse for it being so user-unfriendly in the year 2014. Nuff said.

Edit: @gens: I've found in experiments with users that 3px borders are the bare minimum. There are some terrible pointing devices out there that don't even provide per-pixel accuracy, entirely skipping over the borders! I prefer 4 pixels, for safety, and there's little screen estate cost, plus slightly easier grabbing. It was really surprising how much one more pixel can do!

[Apopas]

Don't get too excited though as KDE developers have no plans to implement Windows 10 design concepts or client-side decorations.

Why we should be excited???

[CTown]

That Windows 10 inspired menu is slick. So, is the Elementary inspired one but I feel that one would would work better if it was fullscreen (like OSX's Launchpad).

As for CSDs, well, KWin will probably always demand SSDs. However, as kver (the author of the blog) points out in the comments, there will be a new blog post soon on what KDE's Visual Design Group refers to as "Dynamic Window Decorations” (DWD).

Right now there’s a third option being buzzed around the VDG and some KDE Devs outside of CSD and SSD, and internally it’s being called “DWD”, or “Dynamic Window Decorations”; and it’s something I’m very excited about. Essentially, DSD is a massive evolution of SSD where we get almost all of the benefits of CSD, and none of the problems.

Even Martin Gr??lin seems to like the idea of these Dynamic Window Decorations!

[Aleve Sicofante]

I'm still looking for a WM/DE that allows me to resize windows without going on a pixel hunt. With easy I mean having at least 4 pixels hotspot *inside* the window frame (like Windows has had since 3.11).

Why exactly do you need the hotspot to be inside the window frame? I can see in my Ubuntu 14.04 that Unity has a hotspot *outside* the window frame. It surely is a design decision, since I agree with you it's not rocket science...

[Aleve Sicofante]

KDE can do everything you never wanted to do and just gets in the way of what you're trying to do.

KDE is obnoxious with its feature creep and way too many buttons, toolbars, menus, everywhere.

KDE is the most cluttered desktop environment ever.

The inspiration for KDE.

LOL. Agreed.