Open-Source .NET Fans Push Its New Foundation

[Luke_Wolf]

The problem is that .NET and C# are Microsoft products, and this scares people. MS products only last ~5 years before they are deprecated or abandoned by MS. I haven't bothered touching .NET/C# for that reason; by the time you've got the hang of it and become an expert, you've also reached the end of the tech's life cycle. Then you have to switch to whatever MS pushes onto you, and start over. Rinse, repeat.

Of course, if you're in for quick money, and only produce temporary 'fire and forget' software solutions (aka business industry or commercial software) it may work fine for you (since you can retire early ). But I prefer to write software that lasts, and will (hopefully) be useful for decades to come. And I suspect most in the Open Source community value the same.

For that reason, any Open Source implementation of a Microsoft technology must reach maturity before MS abandons it, and have plan beyond that. Whenever the next MS tech replacing .NET/C# comes along, all the people developing the OSS variant will move on, neglecting current porting projects. I don't believe OSS .NET/C# is currently feature complete yet.

Also, as of Win8, Windows is no longer a viable platform to develop for. Windows is a sinking ship, it just sinks slowly because it is Titanic-sized. Balmer's carreer involved little more than rearranging deck chairs (heh), and the rat has now abandoned ship. Developers, developers, developers no longer matter as they once did, since MS switched exclusively to a service-based business model. Developers have now become a product to abuse, to join the increasingly confused (yet huge) userbase. before them. MS core tech is seems like a bad foundation to base a future career on, right now. 'Lock-in' is still the main strategy unchanged.

And I wouldn't worry much about the patents, they are becoming less and less relevant, as the legal system is becoming increasingly less tolerant to the abuses of the past. Though you can bet that MS will try to use them as primary weapon in it's final death-spin (SCO-style) and we will re-live those old fun times again. I also predict a heroic return of PJ when that happens...

Well.... The software development industry is always changing, keep learning or you'll be forced out anyway, you can't just stop learning and expect to stay relevant. That said C# has been around since 2000 and shows no sign of disappearing, in fact it's healthier than ever. Now of course the associated libraries keep getting replaced with New And Better (tm) versions but... *shrugs*

[Luke_Wolf]

I don't think Banshee is too highly regarded though?

well It was the first Mono + GTK# project I could think of off the top of my head that wasn't monodevelop

[Slartifartblast]

Crosses and garlic at the ready, here comes Microsoft.

[TheBlackCat]

Well.... The software development industry is always changing, keep learning or you'll be forced out anyway, you can't just stop learning and expect to stay relevant.

The products of some groups change faster than others.

That said C# has been around since 2000 and shows no sign of disappearing, in fact it's healthier than ever. Now of course the associated libraries keep getting replaced with New And Better (tm) versions but... *shrugs*

Microsoft flat-out said they want people to switch from it to their new Metro stuff.

[Luke_Wolf]

Microsoft flat-out said they want people to switch from it to their new Metro stuff.

Then please tell me what is this?

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh974581.aspx

[zeealpal]

The products of some groups change faster than others.


Microsoft flat-out said they want people to switch from it to their new Metro stuff.

You mean MS want people to switch from WinForms/WPF to Modern UI over WinRT?

C# is still one of the, if not the main language used for 'Metro' apps. .Net is still used in 'Metro' apps as well.

Funnily enough, WinForms/WPF vs 'Modern UI' stuff is basically irrelevant to C#/.Net on Linux, since the UI components arn't used on Linux anyhow (and the language/libraries are why [some] people want to use C# on Linux anyhow)

[TheBlackCat]

Then please tell me what is this?
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../hh974581.aspx

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-seeks-more-programming-language-support-for-windows-8/12324

Microsoft officials have been encouraging developers to consider HTML5/JavaScript and C++ when writing new Metro-style apps.

http://redmondmag.com/articles/2013/08/01/apology-accepted.aspx

Ever since Microsoft first took the wraps off its Windows Runtime (WinRT) programming interface and made it known HTML/JavaScript was an optional -- but preferred -- vehicle for building Windows Store (formerly called "Metro style") apps for Windows 8, many in the .NET development community felt slighted and devalued.

I am not saying that .Net is abandoned, but Microsoft is nevertheless recommended javascript as the preferred approach.

[zeealpal]

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/...indows-8/12324

http://redmondmag.com/articles/2013/08/01/apology-accepted.aspx

I am not saying that .Net is abandoned, but Microsoft is nevertheless recommended javascript as the preferred approach.

Apart from quoting just the first paragraph of the redmondmag article, the rest of the article is saying how Microsoft is backing down from the JS first/only approach, and that .Net/XAML are are going to be a core part of MS's development on the WinRT platform.

Here's another quote from that same article:

Though it never actually was the case thanks to the inclusion of XAML and .NET language support in the Windows 8 development platform, Microsoft is trying to make sure its developers know it's not HTML or the highway. (The not-so-secret fact is most of the Windows Store apps that have been built to date were built with C#.) Redmond's developer team wants it officially known that Microsoft .NET languages are still very much part of the picture, as are desktop apps.

Secondly, your first article is from 2012, when Win 8/WinRT was first released, and its now 2 years later and things/MS aren't the same (in this regard, the fact that most Windows Store apps are C#/XAML has caused MS to adjust its outlook as well)

[TheBlackCat]

Apart from quoting just the first paragraph of the redmondmag article, the rest of the article is saying how Microsoft is backing down from the JS first/only approach, and that .Net/XAML are are going to be a core part of MS's development on the WinRT platform.

Please read my last sentence again. I never said there was "JS first/only approach", I said JS is the "preferred" approach.

Secondly, your first article is from 2012, when Win 8/WinRT was first released, and its now 2 years later and things/MS aren't the same (in this regard, the fact that most Windows Store apps are C#/XAML has caused MS to adjust its outlook as well)

So you have quotes from Microsoft saying JS is no longer the preferred approach?

[Luke_Wolf]

Please read my last sentence again. I never said there was "JS first/only approach", I said JS is the "preferred" approach.


So you have quotes from Microsoft saying JS is no longer the preferred approach?

Well I don't have any quotes for them stating otherwise but that was a Sinofsky thing. He's gone now and so is Ballmer, and unlike those two Nadella is very friendly to .NET. He's the guy who authorized the Roslyn release under the Apache license and I don't think it's coincidence that the .NET foundation was set up shortly into his term as well, and they've done all sorts of things (like develop .NET Native, release a completely new and opensource ASP.NET framework, etc) that indicate that .NET is very much alive, and very much still a first class citizen for Microsoft.