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Lennart Poettering On The Open-Source Community: A Sick Place To Be In

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Naib View Post
    If you act like an asshole don't get all precious when people act like dicks to you. Watch, this is not how you interact with a presenter, especially going out of your way to cut him off
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTdUmlGxVo0
    That entire presentation was an epeen session with little more than any point except, "this crap doesn't do what I want, the way I want; fix it!" Lennart even asked Wolfgang if he filed a bug on one of his issues and he clearly said, "no". If you can't be bothered to file a bug, don't think you can stand up at a podium and bash away...

    While the behavior of Lennart was not exactly professional, neither was the presenter...

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    • #22
      He is right on all the line.
      About Linus, I doubt that his "style" didn't push out a lot of free developers, of course who is paid by a company to hack on kernel have no choice at all, if he wants the salary.
      Looking to the kernel contributors we can see a *lot* of company... however not an army of free devs.
      At the end of the day, you are the maintainer, so you don't need to insult people to refuse their patches.
      you can say:
      "You are a f*cking retard incompetent, too stupid to be real. Are you a developer? YOU?!"
      and then refuse the PR, or say:
      "This is wrong in several areas. A code like this has no change to be merged. Sorry."
      and then refuse the PR.
      The insults part is just for your pleasure, it's not needed to do your work, this is why the people have all the right to blame to you for that.

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      • #23
        I find it a bit strange that Lennart states in his post ' I am sometimes articulate, but never personal" and just a few lines later he says 'But more importantly, I'd actually put some blame on a certain circle of folks that play a major role in kernel development, and first and foremost Linus Torvalds himself.'
        Now like most people Lennart (as well as Linus) are full of them self. It is just that some people are a bit more open about it than others and people like Lennart have no problems walking on stage and showing it off either, where others keep things for them self and sit still.

        Even if Lennart is very intelligent I don't think he understands that he can have the same effect on people like Linus have when he "goes off" even if he claims to not be personal in his "attacks" he sure can appear very cocky and inconsiderate and as such is not much different than Linus.
        The way I see it it basically boils down to not being able to separate solemnity and seriousness. Those who want to pop Lennart are obviously the really sick ones (if that is even serious).
        Instead of just going nuts it would be much better to provide a better alternative to his solutions instead. I think most would agree with that.

        I personally like the fact that people say it like it is. Even if that includes some rough language every now and then. At least people are honest and you know where you have them.
        I do not always like Linus or Lennart either for that matter, but you have to admire them both for being so direct.

        A while ago I read a quote saying "I would much rather be hated for what I am, than to be loved for what I am not". I think that is worth remembering no matter what side of the discussion you are on

        http://www.dirtcellar.net

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        • #24
          You know what. I found the original text, and now I'm thinking Linus' words have been slightly removed from context to invent a political melodrama:
          Kay, this needs to be fixed.

          Suggested fix: just use the 'seq_printf()' interfaces, which do the
          proper buffering, and allow any size reads of various packetized data.

          Of course, I'd also suggest that whoever was the genius who thought it
          was a good idea to read things ONE F*CKING BYTE AT A TIME with system
          calls for each byte should be retroactively aborted. Who the f*ck does
          idiotic things like that? How did they noty die as babies, considering
          that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by jwilliams View Post
            "the Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of them."
            --Lennart Poettering (more or less, fixed his quote)
            That's where I actually thought he was going with this.

            I've never met the guy of course but he's always come across as having a huge ego, which are always easily bruised.

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            • #26
              Linux can swear at people because hes almost always "right" and owns a very specific branch of his project that is, the first ever one created (ie being the originator of Linux).
              Anyone's free to fork the kernel and decide to do whatever they want with it after all.

              But swearing when you're unhappy is a VERY FAR CRY from hiring a hitman. What Lennart is doing is blaming Linus for people hiring hitmans. Thats very, very far fetched.

              And as usual a political move of Lennart's game. Also, we all know there isnt really any hitman being hired right now (its a terrible, terrible taste "joke" tho) and that Linus gets at least as much if not more hate mail than Lennart could dream of.

              Sooo yeah. Political games much. Something Linus generally calls bullshit on and destroys quickly when it affects technology.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post

                As for Poettering, he wouldn't have so much hate if he'd actually listen to people.
                The systemd developers do actually listen to people, which is why the project is evolving like it does. The extreme hate against systemd and Poettering that some people are showing, have no basis in actual criticism of systemd and how it works however.

                There really are some sick people out there that stalks every systemd thread in order to pour out their anger and hate against the project. They don't even seem to care for any alternative to systemd, they just want to attack it, and everybody who uses it and dares to make their software support it. Were are not talking about a heated technical debate any more, but pure hate attacks.

                Everybody in the Open Source community has now become acceptable targets for the haters. If you dare to have an opinion on even trivial technical matters, you will be attacked by anonymous haters. The death and rape threats I have seen against open source developers are simply sickening, but for the haters it is as normal as eating breakfast.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by valeriodean View Post
                  He is right on all the line.
                  About Linus, I doubt that his "style" didn't push out a lot of free developers, of course who is paid by a company to hack on kernel have no choice at all, if he wants the salary.
                  Looking to the kernel contributors we can see a *lot* of company... however not an army of free devs.
                  At the end of the day, you are the maintainer, so you don't need to insult people to refuse their patches.
                  you can say:
                  "You are a f*cking retard incompetent, too stupid to be real. Are you a developer? YOU?!"
                  and then refuse the PR, or say:
                  "This is wrong in several areas. A code like this has no change to be merged. Sorry."
                  and then refuse the PR.
                  The insults part is just for your pleasure, it's not needed to do your work, this is why the people have all the right to blame to you for that.
                  most of linux posts are actually the later you know.
                  he gets pissed of sometimes and start swearing, thats what gives him the reputation. hes not a bad person enjoying insulting people personally.
                  (he does insult companies from time to time, that he may enjoy - but thats not the same as personal insults and is something we all do, even if not with the same impact)

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Re

                    Originally posted by johnc View Post
                    That's where I actually thought he was going with this.

                    I've never met the guy of course but he's always come across as having a huge ego, which are always easily bruised.
                    "huge ego" - can you give some examples? Or you take it only from active trolls?
                    He does like to joke on some moronic things people post on the internet about systemd or him but nothing further than that...

                    Some people just can't keep up with the evolving/changing world and they hate that Lennart brings up these software. If it were like they want it to be, we would of still got fire from thunderbolts...

                    It reminds of the programmers that were writing applications in binary by pushing the buttons on the big machines and complaining when Assembler appeared. Same happened when Fortran appeared - Assembler programmers complaining that no one needs that extra cost for the abstractions it offers... The world evolves, we need the abstractions to be able to create even greater things...

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      It seems that Poettering has created on his email lists and project community websites, an echo chamber of his disciplines. When he ventures outside of that, he can't stand the scruttiny.

                      He wants little league where everyone gets a trophy for trying, but he gets the biggest trophy for trying the hardest.

                      Far from being the open source "tea party", he wants the open source obama administration.

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