Microsoft Announces... Windows 10 With A Start Menu

[Guest]

And because you prefer function you chose windows 10? And before that you had windows 8?

I was talking about the Start Screen and how it looks vs how it works. But in regards to Windows, I'm using 10 just fine currently, just as I used 8.1 just fine.

[kpedersen]

I don't even try to compare them with FOSS desktops. They are just not usable (the windows) alone.

For the most nerdy of power users (i.e people like us), we can just use the terminal to perform any tasks that the desktop environment does not provide. But for "less technical" power users, the Windows desktop provides incredible functionality. Tools like services.msc, compmgmt.msc, regedit, disk management and the (original) control panel (and admin tools) provide such massive amounts of flexibility and information that I do not believe other desktops can catch up within my lifetime. Especially with this recent trend of breaking Gnome 3.

Luckily I prefer scripts and keeping my config deterministic and reproducable so I am very happy with Linux/BSD and dwm/cwm .

[Apopas]

I was talking about the Start Screen and how it looks vs how it works. But in regards to Windows, I'm using 10 just fine currently, just as I used 8.1 just fine.

I just don't get it how "metro" and "functionality" can fit in the same sentence.

[Apopas]

For the most nerdy of power users (i.e people like us), we can just use the terminal to perform any tasks that the desktop environment does not provide. But for "less technical" power users, the Windows desktop provides incredible functionality. Tools like services.msc, compmgmt.msc, regedit, disk management and the (original) control panel (and admin tools) provide such massive amounts of flexibility and information that I do not believe other desktops can catch up within my lifetime. Especially with this recent trend of breaking Gnome 3.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not eager to separate the power users to levels. You are a power user or you are not. The only users I separate are technical users and the legendary simple users. For the first ones, terminal is more than enough for everything while for the second ones, windows 8+ is a crappy thing that do not let them use their puters in the way they want.

[prodigy_]

I just don't get it how "metro" and "functionality" can fit in the same sentence.

Metro is a fail concept for the same reason why Unity is a fail concept. It could be good enough it targeted only tablets. Of course, other questions would remain (like "why switch to Windows on a tablet when Android and iOS already have thousands of apps?") but they would have nothing to do with Metro itself.

People don't want desktop apps on their tablets because tablets aren't good at dealing with desktop apps. If you have to use a Bluetooth keyboard all the time with your tablet, you're better off buying an unltrabook. People don't want "convergent" touchscreen-oriented UIs on their desktops and laptops because those UIs have terrible productivity and are incredibly clumsy when you use them with keyboard and mouse.

Every time the two worlds (tablets and desktop/desktops) collide it's an unmitigated disaster.

[Apopas]

Metro is a fail concept for the same reason why Unity is a fail concept. It could be good enough it targeted only tablets. Of course, other questions would remain (like "why switch to Windows on a tablet when Android and iOS already have thousands of apps?") but they would have nothing to do with Metro itself.

People don't want desktop apps on their tablets because tablets aren't good at dealing with desktop apps. If you have to use a Bluetooth keyboard all the time with your tablet, you're better off buying an unltrabook. People don't want "convergent" touchscreen-oriented UIs on their desktops and laptops because those UIs have terrible productivity and are incredibly clumsy when you use them with keyboard and mouse.

Every time the two worlds (tablets and desktop/desktops) collide it's an unmitigated disaster.

My thoughts in 6.5 lines.

[Guest]

I just don't get it how "metro" and "functionality" can fit in the same sentence.

Are you saying you can comfortably use the Start Menu on Windows quicker and easier with a keyboard and mouse (no using the search bar) than the Start Screen?

(comfortably implies you have experience with using the Start Screen (experience as in being able to either click the Start button on 8.1 or using the Windows key, and being able to click icons to open the corresponding program), and can properly pin and organize what you use to it)

Also, were you talking about the Start Screen, or Modern UI entirely? I personally don't use any of the Modern UI apps because they can't be used once UAC is disabled, and plus I don't sign into a Microsoft account. Only Modern UI app I use is the Immersive Control Panel, and I only step foot in there for initial Windows setup, and rarely afterwards.

Modern UI aside, unless there is something I'm missing, the rest of Windows 8+ functions... relatively the same as previous operating systems. You still have a desktop mode. You can still run non-Modern UI apps. You still have Explorer and folder view, and it all looks and functions relatively the same as previous operating systems.

I am really having a hard time believing the complains of Windows 8 being unusable from a productivity standpoint (since I use it without problem), but I want to try to understand... So far the only real arguments I keep seeing are that it's "touchscreen based", which doesn't explain why it might be worse at all.

[smitty3268]

Are you saying you can comfortably use the Start Menu on Windows quicker and easier with a keyboard and mouse (no using the search bar) than the Start Screen?

(comfortably implies you have experience with using the Start Screen (experience as in being able to either click the Start button on 8.1 or using the Windows key, and being able to click icons to open the corresponding program), and can properly pin and organize what you use to it)

Also, were you talking about the Start Screen, or Modern UI entirely? I personally don't use any of the Modern UI apps because they can't be used once UAC is disabled, and plus I don't sign into a Microsoft account. Only Modern UI app I use is the Immersive Control Panel, and I only step foot in there for initial Windows setup, and rarely afterwards.

Modern UI aside, unless there is something I'm missing, the rest of Windows 8+ functions... relatively the same as previous operating systems. You still have a desktop mode. You can still run non-Modern UI apps. You still have Explorer and folder view, and it all looks and functions relatively the same as previous operating systems.

I am really having a hard time believing the complains of Windows 8 being unusable from a productivity standpoint (since I use it without problem), but I want to try to understand... So far the only real arguments I keep seeing are that it's "touchscreen based", which doesn't explain why it might be worse at all.

So i'm using Windows 2012 R2 at work now, which is based on 8.1, and has Metro.

My thoughts: Metro really is annoying, but I can basically ignore it for all intents and purposes, so it's not that bad. I really only use it as a replacement for the start menu, and while i still prefer the old one I can't really say the new one is a disaster. It's just slightly worse.

Also, I heard (unconfirmed), that the reason MS is going from Windows 8 to 10 is that some old apps look at the version number to see if it starts with a "9" and assume it is either Windows 95 or 98. Funny if true.