X.Org Women Outreach Program Only Turns Up Two Applicants So Far

[kigurai]

How and why is the lack of women a problem for software engineering in general, other than corporations having to fill quotas? What specifically do women bring to the table that men don't?

As a male, a more diverse working place.
As for women I guess being able to pursue a career they enjoy without having to constantly be "the odd one out".

[daniels]

Think about how most woman would feel after being lumped into the same category as queers and others with birth defects.

Right on, wizard69. We'll definitely consult you for more bright ideas in future, about how to become more inclusive, as you've clearly got it all worked out.

ITT: actual developers who produce actual open source code create an outreach program for their own project, while entitled manchildren who have never written a line of code whine about how things are unfair because of an outreach program exists for a project which they could never be capable enough to contribute to anyway...

Manchildren of Phoronix: The X.Org developers don't owe you anything, as long as you're not paying their salaries, shut the fuck up and go back to reddit where you belong.

^

[TheBlackCat]

How and why is the lack of women a problem for software engineering in general, other than corporations having to fill quotas? What specifically do women bring to the table that men don't?

Open source projects can always use more contributors. If there is a pool of qualified people who could be contributing but aren't for social reasons, it is in the best interest of the project to fix that.

[nils_]

Open source projects can always use more contributors. If there is a pool of qualified people who could be contributing but aren't for social reasons, it is in the best interest of the project to fix that.

The question is are these social reasons? Are the current X.org developers sexist? And if so, why would any woman want to work with them regardless of their efforts?

[blackiwid]

In general, feminist, think for 1 second that your political correct ideology could be wrong, that this extremism did overdue it at some point, if not from the beginning.

Yes there was inaquality in older days and its maybe ok to fight that, and maybe that is the way woman fight because most of them are to passive to fight for them own like man do, while on the other end they also fight themselv what we here call "zickenkrieg" what means something like bitchwar.

But on the other hand it was not this man discremanate woman one directional thing this ideology do make it look like. To make it clear if capitalism working places are the best thing u can reach in this world its only a possitive think and taking care of childs is slavery or something like that, why do people get payd for it, or payed more that they absolutly need to survive? Because its a compensation gate for somethimes stupid work in a at least technicaly dictatorian system.

why where most of the tiem in wars only man going to hell (battlefield) how can u discreminate somebody more than sending him to hell?

I dont have a problem with overcome this, but on both ends, stop the discremination of man too, today most firefighters again get social bribed to go into the fire. That was more or less what this was social bribing, they think they are the better one, but the only thing they had was that they had the duties and they had to do the bad work, why is it discreminating if somebody goes in a butcher shop to cut animals all day long, and the poor woman has to stay home and play with the kids and yes ok also cook and clean stuff. Because she gets no money for it, yes maybe, then change THAT!

While maybe that was different back then, but most man I know dont care so much about perfect clean houses, most of the time woman overdoe it there or have to big demands on cleaness, but maybe thats a generation thing I dont know.

But if u think it taht way than man and womand got "discreminated" in different ways, only helping womans leeds over many years to a discremination of man. And we see it in schools, if u stop focusung on one special field like IT, more man fail in school, even that who "succeed" have less good results, because the woman only teachers in lower schools dont focus on their needs. U see that in criminal statistics who get more likely a casualty of a crime, and who is more likely the criminal, yes man.

Man just start to fail, in america its even further. in America also most soldiers are man, so they failed too... etc (imho).

For me its just to stupid to fight such minimalistic problem if its even a problem I get the fight partialy till woman were equal under the law but from then its not that big problem anymore. (in western countries)

The main problem is not about man vs woman or the other way around, the main problem is capitalism at least this pure capitalism, in europe we have at least small "socialism" programms, but its to less, we talk about capitalism and democracies as if that would be the same thing, in reality capitalism is dictatorship, every company owner is the dictator of all employees of this company, at least till they quit the job and choose to live under a bridge if he is not one of the top 10% who gets easy another job from which he can live from.

So even if u are a feminist-religion beliver (lets talk in 5 or 10 years again, I was so 10 years ago too) we should all fight for a basic income grant, then everybody gets more power against their employers and can say NO to stuff they dont like as example sexism, and with that power really force company to change. thats more freedom.

[erendorn]

We rather need programs that get girls interested in tech well before their university years.

That's exactly what a program intending to create role models does.

You can't have role models until you get a significant number of girls interested at a young enough age to actually pursue IT as an advanced educational endeavor.

10% of all IT workers is a significant absolute number of people.

An issue or two ago of Make Magazine had a picture of a woman on the front cover wearing a nut as a ring on one of her fingers. The article covered (yes I did more than look at the pretty woman) a lot of her efforts to involve girls in the tech and hands on world at a young age. It is pretty much a given that this woman will get more girls interested in the tech world than X-Ord ever will.

Citation needed. I'm fairly certain that it's important to rise interest in younger girls by addressing them directly, but having adult examples is also a very effective method to do exactly that (mostly observable in that people tend to reproduce their parents jobs, even if they follow the same education while being young).

Screw economic output. You make an assumption here that what those woman are currently doing isn't economically valuable. Either that or you think IT is the only thing of Importance in this world.

IT is higher up the skill scale than the average job. That's why there are less outreach programs for construction workers, or secretaries. If most doctors where female, it would make sense to do outreach programs for men (would people do it? I don't know, but it still would make sense). In any working pool where there is a skill pressure, you will miss Pareto optimality if a significant group of the population has societally driven reduced interest for it.

The fact is that innate talents are best discovered and developed early in life! In this regard our schools are often failures as they aren't highly optimized for discovering what a child's talents are nor promoting interested outside of the curriculum that the school is focused on.

That depends highly on the field. For music you apparently have to start early, but for science, meds, law and such fields, talent can only be measured after a bit of maturity (that's why most countries have higher educations and have people only specialize at that point. But maybe most countries are wrong

In a nut shell I highly believe that this program is misplaced and insulting to woman. If you want more woman in tech you need an approach that develops those that are interested and have the chops early in life. Establish a large enough pool and eventually you will have woman represented in the open source world.

The only argument you provided to support the claim "insulting to women" was in fact quite insulting itself to other groups
Regarding the early life strategy, as it's a chicken and egg problem, you have to work both at the chicken and the egg level, you cannot just dismiss one and count on future eggs to make future chickens.

[daniels]

Yes there was inaquality in older days and its maybe ok to fight that, and maybe that is the way woman fight because most of them are to passive to fight for them own like man do, while on the other end they also fight themselv what we here call "zickenkrieg" what means something like bitchwar.

This entire sentence is brilliant.

[blackiwid]

This entire sentence is brilliant.

I guess (because u did not say it explizitly, I am not shure) u make fun of my english skillls or lack of time to doublecheck each word, or did u really mean that its a good sentence?

I had maybe a bit time pressure when I wrote it, and my english is not the best, so if u did make fun of it I try to describe what I did mean with it. I mean woman dont fight for themself as a individuum, or to be more precise not that much. Its proven that they fight less hard in wage negoishiations and also in other situations they try more to talk and be friendly with everyone and so on.

So if they want a higher wage they dont go and demand it, they maybe twitter about the sexists or work with others to get a law so that their personal wage gets raised. I shurly overdue it here a bit to make the point.

But in the essense its true. And if u question a boss as sexists because he dont pays more money if the employer demands or asks for it, capitalism is sexistic, and u have to fight at least the pure capitalism. Its no man discreminate Woman also when the boss is a woman she most likely learned this rules and if not they dont get money from investors because they want the maximal interest for their money and they dont get that if the boss gives freely big raises.

Again thats my point, and if u dont want pure communism where everybody gets exactly the same money to make everybody a child where the state knows better what is good for everybody. U have to give the people (also the woman) more freedom so that its more likely that they demand the money. U have to make it easier for people to say no, and the best thing to make people that strong that they can say no to bad loans is basic income grant.

But I think I repeat myself, the point was that woman fight basicly at one hand a very military from the feminist leaders but also a begging strategy, please give us weak woman who cant fight for our self, extra rights, its even pretty old-feshion, they appeal to the protective instinct of man.

Because be real if the man in politics make such laws for more rights at least today, its only because they think thats a good thing, because they have daugthers, not because a aggressive fighting lesbian (nothing against non-violant lesbians) or other hetero aggressive "feminist" goes nuts or something like that.

That was maybe in older ages like that, when woman did fight for votes and other stuff that made them different from the law, but since the 80s this time is over, they have won their fight, and much of it was good or ok at this time that was reached, but after u reached equality (or even more than that for the law) u had won 100% but instead of stopping there, u want to go further. U want to be more equal than equal.

Its a bit like people who got expelled in the past want the land from the other country back. Instead of seeing that u maybe got expelled from the highest payed job but the price for that for men was that they had to go to war and die. Sorry maybe this comparsion does not fit like no comparsion does 100% but ok.

U just see things wrong, its not only a advantage and its not only a right to work and earn good, its also a duty, to not have this duty or not so much, is a advantage. The funny thing is you/they fight for the right to work and earn much money but most of the time in realtionships or marriage u want to not work 100% while the man have to. Ok u can argue thats because he earns more, but what I want to say, is that its not all so black and white, the bad "white" man (in germany that argument nearly doesnt matter, because there are 99.999% only white people so its hard to discreminate non-white people) discreminates the good whatevercolor most likely also white woman.

Its not so simple, but all discussion is over if we have a bge, there is no womand that stays at home because maybe the couple got a child, and the man earns more, both get 1000 euro the child also dont know 500 if they want they can both stay home, they can both work 50% or 100% or one only works 50% or 100% we all will see than, if woman really choose then to work more, because money (except u want to get super-rich or something) is no argument any more against a woman works or a man works.

And 100% equal treatment u will never get maybe in 100.000 years, but u dont get so fast thinks like scheme of childlike characterics and hormons and so on out of everybody. What else is funny is that there is no real research from not feminist about who gets discreminated over ALL fields and try to weightening the discremination against man and against woman together, because there is the narrative that only man discreminate woman and never the other way around.

[dee.]

u make fun of my english skillls or lack of time to doublecheck each word

ur english skilz dont mattr bro bcuz ur wordz r stupid neway

[blackiwid]

ur english skilz dont mattr bro bcuz ur wordz r stupid neway

So u discreminating me by not taking me serious because of my english skills... because u dont have arguments against mine... yes of course we are the cracy sexists that discreminate others

Always the same... like I said its a religious fashism movement that dont need to argue properly because the one with the other oppinions are subhuman beeings not worth to answer too. The white male woman-enslavers are not worth to even argue with.

Basicly u proove u are a racist, because u dont take anyone serious with a perfect english.