New Group Calls For Boycotting Systemd

[Luke]

I've been in enough protests to know one when I see one

Yes, it is. Protest can happen in many forms.

I've been in enough protests to know one when I see one. Do any of the systemd haters really think this is an issue that would be worth marching in the streets over, much less facing down opponents armed with mace, clubs, and Tasers? I've done all these things so I do know what I am talking about.

Systemd, unlike wars, trade treaties, or animal testing, does not hurt people. If you really don't like systemd you can unilaterally opt out of it by not updating or by forking your favorite distro (pin the init system and don[t use newer versions of GNOME) and therefore need not try to prevent others from using it. This is like eating or not eating meat would be if it really did come from a "factory" and not from animals at all. In fact, using or not using systemd is like eating or not eating TOFU: it's your own choice to make, thank's to the freedom free software gives us. Systemd never gave me trouble and I enjoy playing with it, so it stays in my machines. I find it easy to use once learned.

[sdack]

I am going to make this more simple.

Seeing how some of you just do not have any problems with systemd at all, which is good and shows how free your mind is from the troubles software developers had in the past, do I suggest to watch the movie TRON.

Here is the cast for you:

Kevin Flinn aka The Protestors


Ed Dillinger aka Lennert Poettering in his $1b office at RedHat who necroed the MCP.


The Master Control Program (MCP) aka systemd


You might not learn anything from watching the movie, and it does not matter when you do not, but you might find yourself pleasantly entertained. Whatever you make of it, the movie actually reflects some of the reasons why we need free software, why it needs independent processes, etc.. If it means nothing to you then it is ok. If you find yourself disturbed by it or even find it offensive then try to get help.

Have a nice day!

[Luke_Wolf]

I am going to make this more simple.

Seeing how some of you just do not have any problems with systemd at all, which is good and shows how free your mind is from the troubles software developers had in the past, do I suggest to watch the movie TRON.

Here is the cast for you:

Kevin Flinn aka The Protestors


Ed Dillinger aka Lennert Poettering in his $1b office at RedHat who necroed the MCP.


The Master Control Program (MCP) aka systemd


You might not learn anything from watching the movie, and it does not matter when you do not, but you might find yourself pleasantly entertained. Whatever you make of it, the movie actually reflects some of the reasons why we need free software, why it needs independent processes, etc.. If it means nothing to you then it is ok. If you find yourself disturbed by it or even find it offensive then try to get help.

Have a nice day!

Is this one of your "technical" arguments?

[nanonyme]

What I actually said was...



So give me your best, link to it, quote yourself or hell write it again, if it's a good argument then I'd have a reason to care. What I do not care about are your endless wishy washy posts about "problems" without actually explaining what problems you speak about:



What are these problems? What are the mistakes being repeated? Try being specific sometime.



Oh. So because your post that says nothing specific but casts assertions of "problems" and "mistakes" at systemd didn't make any sense to anyone, you're not going to elaborate further? Do you not want people to understand you when you speak?



Pretty much all systems are inevitably replaced. That is not an argument for never using a system in the first place.

Maybe the lack of good answers implies sysvinit had poor specifications and requirements were never documented so new inits end up hitting design problems that could have been avoided if sysvinit had been properly engineered?

[sdack]

Is this one of your "technical" arguments?

Let me ask you! Do you want it to be an argument? And how simple would I need to make it before you would understand any of it?

[psychoticmeow]

Let me ask you! Do you want it to be an argument? And how simple would I need to make it before you would understand any of it?

We don't want it to be simple, we just want it to make sense.

[rice_nine]

We don't want it to be simple, we just want it to make sense.

Don't forget true! We want to hear true things that are true regardless of who explains. Yes, argue! You get bonus points for telling the truth. True things get bonus points for being simple.

That TRON reference was, to put it gently, not particularly helpful. Explain like I'm 5, sdack: Angstrom distribution's semi-automatic online system image builder gives the choice since years ago:

Select the init manager.
sysvinit is generally the best choice, systemd is the future, but experimental and none is for people who are absolutely sure of what they are doing
[radio buttons]
sysvinit systemd none

So why is it bad for my Zaurus that systemd is the future? Why should it not be the future? What is wrong with systemd that some are basing decisions on (to not use it), including Void Linux and Funtoo Linux maintainers for example? I'd go ask them but you seem to have more free time than they do, to spell it out for a 5-year-old. Please, kind sir, convince me. I'm still undecided on whether to actually resist the systemd umbrella, and this thread's signal-to-noise-ratio has gone to the bad place. I'm leaning toward really-don't-care-as-long-as-my-boxes-boot.

[blackiwid]

You might not learn anything from watching the movie, and it does not matter when you do not, but you might find yourself pleasantly entertained. Whatever you make of it, the movie actually reflects some of the reasons why we need free software, why it needs independent processes, etc.. If it means nothing to you then it is ok. If you find yourself disturbed by it or even find it offensive then try to get help.

Have a nice day!

I ve seen it, but I give u that I dont remember exactly the story even it was not that long ago that I watched it. The story as far as I remember was very weak it was more the pictures especialy for that time that did matter.

Still thanx made me smile to see such pictures realted to that subject or just randomly.

But u say something funny:

why we need free software

I didnt notice that systemd was released under a proprietary lisense, because if that is not the case it would be free software, so your argument would not be valid.

[prodigy_]

So why is it bad for my Zaurus that systemd is the future? Why should it not be the future? What is wrong with systemd that some are basing decisions on (to not use it), including Void Linux and Funtoo Linux maintainers for example? I'd go ask them but you seem to have more free time than they do, to spell it out for a 5-year-old. Please, kind sir, convince me. I'm still undecided on whether to actually resist the systemd umbrella, and this thread's signal-to-noise-ratio has gone to the bad place. I'm leaning toward really-don't-care-as-long-as-my-boxes-boot.

This actually depends on what you need/want from your system. You know there are people who think that Windows 9 is the future and are ready to embrace it as soon as...

Systemd is bad for me because it does things in a typically corporate way: it's highly pervasive, it's obscure and very poorly documented and basically the choice it's leaving me with is "Red Hat way or highway".

Remember that "Linux is not a corporation" motto? Well, systemd has painted itself all over that poster so the letters are no longer legible.

[Chousuke]

This actually depends on what you need/want from your system. You know there are people who think that Windows 9 is the future and are ready to embrace it as soon as...

Systemd is bad for me because it does things in a typically corporate way: it's highly pervasive, it's obscure and very poorly documented and basically the choice it's leaving me with is "Red Hat way or highway".

Remember that "Linux is not a corporation" motto? Well, systemd has painted itself all over that poster so the letters are no longer legible.

That is the most ridiculous reason ever to dismiss a collection of software. Never mind that it works, brings consistency by replacing the myriad of half-working wheels invented by everyone and their grandma, and does things on top that you couldn't feasibly do before without writing YET ANOTHER custom solution. No! it's sponsored by someone who makes money from free software! Shock and horror.

No-one is claiming that systemd is perfect, but it's bloody leaps and bounds better than anything that currently exists. There, I said it. You can live in dreamland and talk about how some pieces of software could be put together to do some part of what the systemd toolset already does, but then again it's completely irrelevant since no-one is doing it because systemd is already there and it's only getting better.

Lennart can be a pain at times, and I certainly can't say I always agree with him or other systemd devs... but they write the code.




... Also, "poorly documented" is about as far from the truth as you can get.