Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 28

Thread: How next-gen OpenGL [5] will kill DirectX 12 (i.e. AMD's Mantle on Linux & Android) !

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    59

    Thumbs up How next-gen OpenGL [5] will kill DirectX 12 (i.e. AMD's Mantle on Linux & Android) !

    The Khronos Group is in a unique position, from where they could finally say to Microsoft (and, to a lesser extent, Apple): "Payback's a B*tch!"

    - OpenGL 5 will essentially be Mantle!
    This makes a LOT of sense, since Mantle was created to make the porting process from both the Xbox One and the PS4 easier for developers. And since it seems very clear that Microsoft is also trying to go this route with their Direct3D 12 API, Nvidia is forced to adapt Mantle for their hardware (it was already reported that Direct3D 12 will run on Fermi-class hardware and up). [How else do you think they would be able to come up with a completely new API in such a short amount of time?]

    This will have a few implications:

    - OpenGL 5 will be the first time that Mantle can be deployed cross-vendor & cross-platform!
    This will give an enormous time bonus, since the first DirectX 12 games are being targeted for Holiday 2015! So, if Nvidia & AMD come up with beta drivers for OpenGL 5 this year (we shouldn't have to wait for AMD to catch up this time, since it is their very own API to begin with!), developers could already target all the different platforms with ONE API this year, thus making the wait for Direct3D 12 unneccessary (since it will be like Mantle anyway).

    - All the mobile vendors will have to adapt Mantle, too!
    Nvidia will be able to run OpenGL 5 on their Tegra K1, therefore forcing all the other players to do so either on their hardware. Thus, once Android starts supporting this, there will be no need to target Apple's Metal API, since developers will be able to reach about the same speed with OpenGL 5 / Mantle!

    So, as one can very clearly see, OpenGL 5 will be the ONLY solution if you want to target as many platforms as possible, and if one is able to reach the same speed as one would get with targeting the proprietary API's on each platform, there will be no need any more to do so in the first place!

    I hope I could make my points clear enough and show you why OpenGL has a very bright future ahead!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1,518

    Default

    I don't think there is going to be any relationship between OpenGL (whatever version this month's release will be) and Mantle.

    I also think that people have extraordinary over-the-boundaries opinions of Mantle, and I'm not sure where this even comes from. Apparently marketing is really effective.

    Whatever Khronos comes up with, they most certainly won't have the marketing edge to make their solution generate the kind of excitement that Mantle and Metal received.

    There are even people out there who were quite easily convinced that DX12 is based on Mantle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    1,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    I don't think there is going to be any relationship between OpenGL (whatever version this month's release will be) and Mantle.

    I also think that people have extraordinary over-the-boundaries opinions of Mantle, and I'm not sure where this even comes from. Apparently marketing is really effective.

    Whatever Khronos comes up with, they most certainly won't have the marketing edge to make their solution generate the kind of excitement that Mantle and Metal received.

    There are even people out there who were quite easily convinced that DX12 is based on Mantle.
    I agree with every statement here. Also to point out, I'm pretty sure both MS and Sony did not accept the usage of Mantle for XB1 or PS4. They definitely should, but I'm pretty sure they didn't.

    Until I get some solid evidence nvidia will be supporting it, I don't think they ever will. Nvidia has too much pride to use something this big from someone else. AMD's efforts, to me, seem to be more of a proof-of-concept than an ambitious legitimate alternative API.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    ฿ 16LDJ6Hrd1oN3nCoFL7BypHSEYL84ca1JR
    Posts
    1,052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
    Also to point out, I'm pretty sure both MS and Sony did not accept the usage of Mantle for XB1 or PS4. They definitely should, but I'm pretty sure they didn't.
    If they use mantle and then the mantle specification will be openly accessible and there is even a complete implementation on PCs it will be much easier to write "emulators" with good performance. Can't have people playing their precious "exclusives" without buying their proprietary hardware.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    1,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisXY View Post
    If they use mantle and then the mantle specification will be openly accessible and there is even a complete implementation on PCs it will be much easier to write "emulators" with good performance. Can't have people playing their precious "exclusives" without buying their proprietary hardware.
    An emulator will already be relatively easy. XB1 will be more difficult since it's based on Windows 8 (closed source) and uses that stupid ESRAM. But PS4 is based on BSD and while the APU appears to be more modified than xbox's, it shouldn't be TOO hard to emulate the changes they made. Since the architecture is x86, there should be very little performance loss, at least on an AMD-based system. I'm honestly not sure how emulators are made in the first place. Considering the performance and features of the Wii emulator, there's got to be some major trick.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I agree with every statement here. Also to point out, I'm pretty sure both MS and Sony did not accept the usage of Mantle for XB1 or PS4. They definitely should, but I'm pretty sure they didn't.
    Mantle makes no sense on consoles since they already have close to the metal APIs to begin with. They simply don't need it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    1,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blackout23 View Post
    Mantle makes no sense on consoles since they already have close to the metal APIs to begin with. They simply don't need it.
    Right, they don't need it. But AMD knows their hardware better than MS and Sony, and it'd be in the best interest of the developers to use something cross-platform. If anything, MS should accept Mantle since they have a developer issue.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxxx View Post
    The Khronos Group is in a unique position, from where they could finally say to Microsoft (and, to a lesser extent, Apple): "Payback's a B*tch!"

    - OpenGL 5 will essentially be Mantle!
    This makes a LOT of sense, since Mantle was created to make the porting process from both the Xbox One and the PS4 easier for developers. And since it seems very clear that Microsoft is also trying to go this route with their Direct3D 12 API, Nvidia is forced to adapt Mantle for their hardware (it was already reported that Direct3D 12 will run on Fermi-class hardware and up). [How else do you think they would be able to come up with a completely new API in such a short amount of time?]

    This will have a few implications:

    - OpenGL 5 will be the first time that Mantle can be deployed cross-vendor & cross-platform!
    This will give an enormous time bonus, since the first DirectX 12 games are being targeted for Holiday 2015! So, if Nvidia & AMD come up with beta drivers for OpenGL 5 this year (we shouldn't have to wait for AMD to catch up this time, since it is their very own API to begin with!), developers could already target all the different platforms with ONE API this year, thus making the wait for Direct3D 12 unneccessary (since it will be like Mantle anyway).

    - All the mobile vendors will have to adapt Mantle, too!
    Nvidia will be able to run OpenGL 5 on their Tegra K1, therefore forcing all the other players to do so either on their hardware. Thus, once Android starts supporting this, there will be no need to target Apple's Metal API, since developers will be able to reach about the same speed with OpenGL 5 / Mantle!

    So, as one can very clearly see, OpenGL 5 will be the ONLY solution if you want to target as many platforms as possible, and if one is able to reach the same speed as one would get with targeting the proprietary API's on each platform, there will be no need any more to do so in the first place!

    I hope I could make my points clear enough and show you why OpenGL has a very bright future ahead!
    Reads like an Sci-Fi story or wish... certainly not based on any facts or sources.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    897

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxxx View Post
    The Khronos Group is in a unique position, from where they could finally say to Microsoft (and, to a lesser extent, Apple): "Payback's a B*tch!"
    Great post Linda.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Linuxxx View Post
    ...- All the mobile vendors will have to adapt Mantle, too!
    Nvidia will be able to run OpenGL 5 on their Tegra K1, therefore forcing all the other players to do so either on their hardware....
    No, game developers will target the widest range of hardware available, which means the lowest watermark, not the high watermark as you seem to suggest. Mobile devs will be on OpenGL ES 2.0 for a long time to come, because that's what just about every mobile chipset supports.

    And if game devs focus on OpenGL ES, chipset vendors will carry on supporting that, perpetuating the current 'chicken and egg' situation. Sure, they'll support OpenGL ES 3, but until smartphone generations churn to the point where most people are carrying ES 3 hardware, devs will carry on targeting ES 2.

    OpenGL ES is the standard on mobile, Mantle and/or OpenGL 5 won't even figure.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •