"The World's Most Highly-Assured OS" Kernel Open-Sourced

[a user]

wow, i'm badly impressed about how many people here fail badly on the concept of proof. it's like talking to 5 years old children.

[jayrulez]

There's that too, even Minix3 which is the most advanced of the 3 primary FOSS microkernel (minix, genode, helenOS) projects can't really be run on bear metal at this point. Personally I expect Dragonfly BSD to finish turning into a microkernel before those 3 get themselves in shape to try to compete.

I haven't mucked around with helenos but I've certainly ran MINIX and Genode on bare metal. Maybe "bear" metal is different?

[droidhacker]

Thanks, wow that's quite something. A quick google search shows the Linux kernel was over 15million lines of code in 2011. I suppose it's a lot easier to keep code secure when there's so few moving parts.

For limited use cases I'm sure this would be good to use. Though with so few lines of code I'm assuming there's no hardware drivers. Imagine getting wi-fi up-and-running using this!

Most wifi drivers are more than 7500 lines of code by themselves.... ath10k is over 28000.
Wait... 7500 only? Really? There's not a "0" or 2 missing from that?

[droidhacker]

Most wifi drivers are more than 7500 lines of code by themselves.... ath10k is over 28000.
Wait... 7500 only? Really? There's not a "0" or 2 missing from that?

Yep. I was right, there was a 0 missing.
$ git ls-files | xargs cat | wc -l
82122

[jayrulez]

Yep. I was right, there was a 0 missing.
$ git ls-files | xargs cat | wc -l
82122

7500 refers to only the lines of code that are a part of the microkernel.

[gilboa]

Correlation is not causation. There are more monolithic kernel projects that failed to success in their target markets that microkernels. Noone is pushing any microkernel for desktop or server markets. Despite many pushing Linux as a desktop OS, it has yet to make any inroads on the desktop. Does that make Linux or monolithic kernels bad for the desktop? I don't think so. Correlation is not causation.

Again, micro-kernels built around the notion that monolithic kernels are inherently unstable *by design*.
In-order to solve this inherent design issue, micro-kernels pay a hefty price when it comes to latency and complexity.
Given the fact that *all* 5/9s servers in the world use monolithic kernels more or less proves that monolithic kernels are just as stable as micro-kernels.

- Gilboa

[Nobu]

Basically this ^, plus all of the FOSS gen2 microkernel OSes are in their infancy when compared to the monolithic ones. L4/Pistachio was released in 2001, Minix 3 was 2005, Genode in 2008, HelenOS AFAICT started in 2009.

Just fyi, Genode is an OS, and can use various kernels (including Linux).

[log0]

Again, micro-kernels built around the notion that monolithic kernels are inherently unstable *by design*.
In-order to solve this inherent design issue, micro-kernels pay a hefty price when it comes to latency and complexity.
Given the fact that *all* 5/9s servers in the world use monolithic kernels more or less proves that monolithic kernels are just as stable as micro-kernels.

- Gilboa

LOL. It only tells that servers are not seen as life- and safety-critical systems. Ever seen Linux running medical, nuclear, space or military devices? Think of SIL 3 and 4. They are dominated by microkernels.

[gilboa]

LOL. It only tells that servers are not seen as life- and safety-critical systems. Ever seen Linux running medical, nuclear, space or military devices? Think of SIL 3 and 4. They are dominated by microkernels.

Sure, 5-9's servers are not seen as life critical servers. Large ITs (E.g. banks, insurance companies, stock-exchanges, etc) pay 50-300K$ a server (loaded with RAS features) simply because the extra cash is burning a hole in their pocket.
Troll much?

(EDIT: Oh, and while you are at it, check the dictionary for the definition of "just-as-stable").

[jayrulez]

Sure, 5-9's servers are not seen as life critical servers. Large ITs (E.g. banks, insurance companies, stock-exchanges, etc) pay 50-300K$ a server (loaded with RAS features) simply because the extra cash is burning a hole in their pocket.
Troll much?

(EDIT: Oh, and while you are at it, check the dictionary for the definition of "just-as-stable").

Please read my previous reply.