Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Deepin 2014 Linux Distribution Released

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    15,429

    Default Deepin 2014 Linux Distribution Released

    Phoronix: Deepin 2014 Linux Distribution Released

    This weekend marks the release of Deepin 2014...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTczNTU

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    35

    Default

    I have to admit i like the design, it has the simplistic feel of gnome 3 without leaving all desktop design paradigments of the last 20 years behind.

    Though i fully intent to test it in a virtual machine ... Pity its based on Ubuntu, i vastly prefer rolling release distros these days.
    Might be nice for the linux machines i maintain for friends and family though, simplistic and static is real good there.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianB View Post
    Though i fully intent to test it in a virtual machine ... Pity its based on Ubuntu, i vastly prefer rolling release distros these days.
    Do you use any rolling release distro apart from Arch or Gentoo and their derivatives? Frankly, there aren't many options out there. Also, I don't count Debian Sid or LMDE to be rolling release.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by a2r-l View Post
    Do you use any rolling release distro apart from Arch or Gentoo and their derivatives? Frankly, there aren't many options out there. Also, I don't count Debian Sid or LMDE to be rolling release.
    I remember reading about turning OpenSUSE into rolling release through a few simple steps, though I never got around to trying it. It is called Tumbleweed if I recall correctly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kaprikawn View Post
    I remember reading about turning OpenSUSE into rolling release through a few simple steps, though I never got around to trying it. It is called Tumbleweed if I recall correctly.
    Tumbleweed is similar to Fedora Rawhide, if I am not mistaken, i.e., not exactly a conventional rolling release distro.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by a2r-l View Post
    Tumbleweed is similar to Fedora Rawhide, if I am not mistaken, i.e., not exactly a conventional rolling release distro.
    Nope, it's a rolling release. Fedora Rawhide equals openSUSE Factory.
    You just need to switch your repositories to the tumbleweed version and run zypper dup.

    http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Tumbleweed

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droste View Post
    Nope, it's a rolling release. Fedora Rawhide equals openSUSE Factory.
    Interesting. I didn't know about Factory.
    You just need to switch your repositories to the tumbleweed version and run zypper dup.

    http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Tumbleweed
    Reading the Tumbleweed documentation at the link you provided, it seems that they don't provide (frequent?) updates to properietry graphics drivers, at least.

    So all in all, in my opinion, based on the ease of use and number of constraints, there is no better option for a rolling release distro than Arch Linux.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Ok, lets get a few things out of the way so we don't talk circles around this.

    1. There is a difference between a rolling release distro, a semi rolling release distro and a rolling package repository.
    2. All the big distros have a rolling package repo or even several, Fedora calls it Rawhide, SuSE calls it Factory, debian calls it experimental etc. Its not meant to be tracked as such by endusers though atleast Fedora and Opensuse are working on making it more stable via more intelligent autobuilders and stuff i think. Its where stuff ends up after it compiles but before maintainers have figured out how and when(sometimes if) its going into the distro. If you make a snapshot of it at any time there is no guarantee it all adds up to a working system at all, though individual packages more often than not will work.
    3. A true rolling release is very difficult to put together in a stable manner, its not something that can be done by a couple guys in their spare time. Only very few Distros have the necessary community/dev power to even entertain it, lets call em the big 5.


    Examples of true rolling release:
    Arch, Gentoo

    No real concept of version numbers, repository gets changed daily and packages are added/updated independently of each other as upstream releases them.

    Examples of semi rolling distros:
    LMDE, Debian testing/sid, SolidXK etc.

    They have some kind of versioning going on. Update packs for LMDE, packages intended for debian x+1 for testing etc. Its not upstream thats setting the pace, but the needs/intentions of the distro.

    Examples of rolling repos:
    Tumbleweed opensuse, rpmfusion for fedora, various PPA thingies for ubuntu etc.

    They are not distributions, but more of a addon pack thats rolling a certain selection of packages on a normal version serving as basis. For example Tumbleweed rolls kernels, and some other packages without too many dependencies, but refuses to track mesa because it would pull in to much.


    If you want rolling release you should use either Gentoo, Arch or a derivative for best experience. Anything else your going to see compromises. Tumbleweed is an excellent example, no propriety drivers, recent kernel but no recent mesa. LMDE for another example still hasn't updated to recent cinnamon/mate thats been out for months, because they want to deliver it as a UP. Even tracking rawhide or factory won't help because they don't include propriety modules for kernel nor even the option to receive them as an addon, also they have a different focus, aiming to support the next release, not provide you a hasslefree upgrade procedure.

    At the end of the day there are actually very few basic distros that you can choose from. Maybe call them chassis. We have Opensuse(SLES), Debian(Ubuntu), Fedora(RedHat), Gentoo, Arch. The rest are flavours or exotics(well except maybe magaia, not sure if they warrant being their own chassi though...). Doesn't mean they are bad, just not as big. And big matters. Alot. Most obviously with Security advisories and LTE support, testing and own infrastructure like portage tree, OBS or creating and maintaining their own package software.

    Some Distros people perceive as "big" really are not. Linux Mint for example, is Ubuntu + Cinnamon/Mate(oversimplification), while ubuntu is Debian + upstart/unity(again oversimplification). They can add really cool things because they have time to work on them due to someone else doing all the boring maintenance work(like actually having a maintainer or several for every package in your distro). Its called focus and its one of the things making linux successful. You can spin that even farther, google was able to create android due to it, apple did iOS and Mac OSX due to it etc.

    At the end of the day, whats left of a FotM distribution is just a fancy configuration, a dozen recompiled packages and maybe a fancy new desktop in its infancy.


    TL;DR:
    Just use Gentoo or Arch(or derivative) if you really want a rolling release. Its not as if there is one you overlooked and didn't notice till now. Making a rolling release distro from scratch doesn't just happen overnight and basing it on a non rolling distribution will lead to odd pauses(release freezes) and missing packages(no recent systemd/gnome in debian sid even due to internal goals).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    528

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by a2r-l View Post
    Reading the Tumbleweed documentation at the link you provided, it seems that they don't provide (frequent?) updates to properietry graphics drivers, at least.

    So all in all, in my opinion, based on the ease of use and number of constraints, there is no better option for a rolling release distro than Arch Linux.
    Well you could of course just use the open source drivers :P But yeah if you depend on proprietary drivers through a repository openSUSE Tumbleweed is probably not the best choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by SebastianB View Post
    1. There is a difference between a rolling release distro, a semi rolling release distro and a rolling package repository.
    2. All the big distros have a rolling package repo or even several, Fedora calls it Rawhide, SuSE calls it Factory, debian calls it experimental etc. Its not meant to be tracked as such by endusers though atleast Fedora and Opensuse are working on making it more stable via more intelligent autobuilders and stuff i think. Its where stuff ends up after it compiles but before maintainers have figured out how and when(sometimes if) its going into the distro. If you make a snapshot of it at any time there is no guarantee it all adds up to a working system at all, though individual packages more often than not will work.
    3. A true rolling release is very difficult to put together in a stable manner, its not something that can be done by a couple guys in their spare time. Only very few Distros have the necessary community/dev power to even entertain it, lets call em the big 5.
    So what again makes a rolling release a "true" rolling release? And why is openSUSE Tumbleweed not "true"?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droste View Post
    Well you could of course just use the open source drivers :P But yeah if you depend on proprietary drivers through a repository openSUSE Tumbleweed is probably not the best choice.



    So what again makes a rolling release a "true" rolling release? And why is openSUSE Tumbleweed not "true"?
    Opensource drivers with mesa 9.x? Have fun with that. You would be more recent just adding the xorg repo to your normal 13.1 install, which doesn't support tumbleweed.

    Tumbleweed isn't a true rolling release because its just a addon repository to your 13.1 opensuse distro. Its like adding a ppa to ubuntu and calling it a rolling release. For example 4 days after 13.1 came out installed it and switched to tumbleweed, there was nothing in it at that time. Then they started adding a package here and there, but it was always based on 13.1, just a few updates.

    Which brings me to what a "true" rolling release is, a true RR isn't based on adding updates to a normal release distro. Because if you do that you are constrained by the limits of the release plan of the point distro or risk changing so many packages that you loose compatibility and essentially become a fork because it becomes too hard to backport the changes of their next point release. For example even Debian Sid only contains gnome 3.8, yet its meant to be unstable, i.e. rather bleeding edge. Thats because its constrained by the release cycle of stable debian.

    A true RR also doesn't release packages as update packs every few months, which if you think about it is just a shorter release cycle than a normal distro. A true RR adds packages as they come in from upstream on their own merits, i.e. stable enough or not, integrated in distro or not. If f.e. systemd releases a new version and its compiling/running fine it gets added, same for kernel, DEs or browsers. Packages don't wait on each other as there is no concept of packages belonging together besides actual dependencies. These distros also tend to have a really tiny base system, and no "default" package sets for desktop users since the versions and dependencies in the repositories tend to change so fast that its safer and cleaner to calculate them anew for every installation.


    At the end of the day, normal distros are pictures that get redrawn every release, while RR distros tend to be puzzles where you get each piece redrawn and replaced individually. Things like Tumbleweed or even LMDE only focus on a part of the picture and replace that again and again. Besides that I guess the main difference is in the mindset that goes into choosing which package gets updated when, or even wether it gets updated at all.
    Last edited by SebastianB; 07-12-2014 at 06:48 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •