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Thread: AMD Reportedly Plans To Bring Mantle To Linux, Calls Mantle An Open-Source API

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by grndzro View Post
    Mantle porting to DX12 will be very easy. The benefits of supporting Linux/Steambox probably outweigh the minimal porting effort of going Mantle/DX12. On top of that Mantle will work with Win7 which has the highest market share of windows.

    Do you honestly think supporting OS locked DX12/OGL is a better deal than supporting Mantle/OGL? You are crazy.
    A person who claims it's easy to port a large game to a completely different rendering API obviously know little about programming, porting between Direct3D and OpenGL is way easier. And since using the new features of Direct3D and OpenGL only requires minor changes in the code, why would anyone bother "upgrading" to Mantle? Please provide any solid reasons why to use Mantle.

    I suggest you read some of the following:
    Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL
    http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/...aper-FINAL.pdf (page 13)
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/bindless_graphics.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Filiprino View Post
    Nah, the power consumption would be lower because you'd spend less CPU cycles and the GPU would be used when needed for the same performance.

    And now that I think about it, if Mantle is low overhead then it may free up resource from the CPU to run other type of tasks: physics, input/output, random generation algorithms, sound processing and others.
    Unless you actively prevent the frame rate from increasing, reducing the overhead will increase the power consumption of the GPU and CPU.(but the consumption per API call will be lower)

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by efikkan View Post
    A person who claims it's easy to port a large game to a completely different rendering API obviously know little about programming, porting between Direct3D and OpenGL is way easier. And since using the new features of Direct3D and OpenGL only requires minor changes in the code, why would anyone bother "upgrading" to Mantle? Please provide any solid reasons why to use Mantle.

    I suggest you read some of the following:
    Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL
    http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/...aper-FINAL.pdf (page 13)
    http://www.nvidia.com/object/bindless_graphics.html


    Unless you actively prevent the frame rate from increasing, reducing the overhead will increase the power consumption of the GPU and CPU.(but the consumption per API call will be lower)
    Because Mantle is very close to DX12. DX12 has been designed with Mantle in mind. Johan Anderson even commented that it was absurdly similar to Mantle. AMD even says the effort to port from Mantle-DX12 is easy.

    PS4 uses OGL and is the biggest next gen console so the work on OGL there isn't entirely wasted.

    MS is bringing DX12 to XB1 so porting from Mantle to XB1 will be fairly easy.

    AMD says Mantle on Linux is in the works. That also means Steambox support. AMD is currently working on arm chips with GCN graphics. Mantle could also be used there since it is largely processor independent.

    You keep stating that mantle has higher overhead. You got any sources? From what I see Mantle has reduced overhead.
    Even Nvidia when comparing their new OGL extensions said they have matched the mantle drivers in overhead.

    Porting from D3D to OGL is irrelevant. The PS4 needs OGL support.

    OGL is already needed by default due to PS4. This can also cover backwards compatibility eliminating the need to mess with DX9/10. So you either work with another API(DX9) or further tailor the game for OGL which you need anyway.

    So you get an OGL version running with NV extensions and backwards compatibility. A Mantle version that is easily ported to DX12/XB1. Would effectively limit you to working with 2 API's and a bit of porting to cover everything. Nvidia gets their Gameworks and AMD gets it's Mantle. Windows 7 people don't have to upgrade.

    Or you do a DX9/11/12 version, have to port it to PS4, (OGL). And you still have to tune the game for AMD/Nvidia. And if you want Linux support with good performance on both AMD/Nvidia you would effectively be working with 2 different OGL sets which is another headache. Windows 7 owners are screwed.

    It is easy to port Mantle to DX12.
    http://wccftech.com/mantle-api-porte...d-white-paper/
    And since you would already need to make an OGL version for PS4 wouldn't it make sense to simply put more work into the OGL version for backwards compatibility with both older GPU's and Windows 7?
    Mantle + OGL + easy port to both XB1/DX12 covers everything. And since Mantle is coming to Linux it makes even more sense.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by grndzro View Post
    PS4 uses OGL and is the biggest next gen console so the work on OGL there isn't entirely wasted.
    No.



    *fivechars*

  4. #84
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    Where does this BS about playstation systems using OGL come from. PS3 was libGCM and PS4 is LibGNM.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by grndzro View Post
    Because Mantle is very close to DX12. DX12 has been designed with Mantle in mind. Johan Anderson even commented that it was absurdly similar to Mantle. AMD even says the effort to port from Mantle-DX12 is easy.
    I'm sorry, you got it all wrong. Mantle was created because AMD didn't want to wait for Direct3D 12. They grabbed the opportunity and scored a whole lot of PR. In the end Mantle does not matter much either way, it's interesting from a technical point but that's about it.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nille View Post
    No.
    *fivechars*
    Quote Originally Posted by scottishduck View Post
    Where does this BS about playstation systems using OGL come from. PS3 was libGCM and PS4 is LibGNM.
    Mabye because the PS4 API is based on OGL.
    Direct X isn't available on FreeBSD so Sony adapted the PS3 API to OGL 4.4 and added extensions for DX11 support.

    Quote Originally Posted by efikkan View Post
    I'm sorry, you got it all wrong. Mantle was created because AMD didn't want to wait for Direct3D 12. They grabbed the opportunity and scored a whole lot of PR. In the end Mantle does not matter much either way, it's interesting from a technical point but that's about it.
    Mantle came about through AMD's collaborative work on the PS4 API and talks with developers in what they want in an API. AMD approached Dice to help with making Mantle. That's why the PS4 API is very similar to mantle as well. If Mantle dosent matter then why is it becoming an increasingly prevalent feature in upcoming game engines and titles? Why is AMD going to make it for Linux? Why was both DX12 and Apple's Metal API designed around the features in Mantle? Why did NV make new OGL extensions with the express purpose of combating Mantle with OGL?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by grndzro View Post
    Mabye because the PS4 API is based on OGL.
    Direct X isn't available on FreeBSD so Sony adapted the PS3 API to OGL 4.4 and added extensions for DX11 support.
    Still No. Not even Close.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nille View Post
    Still No. Not even Close.
    Oh really?
    What is PSSL based on then?
    Why does it support OpenGL?

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by grndzro View Post
    Mabye because the PS4 API is based on OGL.
    Mantle came about through AMD's collaborative work on the PS4 API and talks with developers in what they want in an API. AMD approached Dice to help with making Mantle. That's why the PS4 API is very similar to mantle as well. If Mantle dosent matter then why is it becoming an increasingly prevalent feature in upcoming game engines and titles? Why is AMD going to make it for Linux? Why was both DX12 and Apple's Metal API designed around the features in Mantle? Why did NV make new OGL extensions with the express purpose of combating Mantle with OGL?
    You are way off base here. The extensions (most initially created by Nvidia) were released before Mantle, the first of Bindless Graphics was available in 2009 on GT200 hardware!

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by grndzro View Post
    Oh really?
    What is PSSL based on then?
    Why does it support OpenGL?
    PSSL is based on HLSL/Nvidia Cg... lmao

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