Originally posted by erendorn
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Mark Reiterates Mir Will Have First-Class Driver Support
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Originally posted by mvaar View Postthe re-inventing, I mean. You picked mir but the OSS world is full of half-baked, replicated solutions and apps. Even the desktops- who needs so many ? I am sure the lame answer is choice, except when the choice is offered by someone that threatens my house of cards.
Go take a look at the proprietary side. In *most* categories of software, there's way more superfluous proprietary apps than there are open source ones.
Desktops are a kind of special case, because most proprietary OS's don't support custom desktop environments, this is something only enabled by open operating systems and software environments.
As to your question "who needs them": the people who use them, duh.
If wayland is considered an improvement over xorg ( and I strongly disagree with it, primarily because the same people are doing both and are making the same mistakes ALREADY
and what is worse, wayland is still not used by most projects anyway),
then Mir is xorg done right. I agree with Mark's notion of an API driven driver, rather than a collection of implemented protocols. In both cases implementations can vary but at least they can be externalized. One only has to look at the popularity of direct X and direct 3D APIs- if its design was anything like X or wayland, it is unlikely to have become popular. Apple's platform benefited from coco and openGL.
In contrast, Wayland is being developed collaboratively and for the use of all DE's, and promises stable API's for both compositors and clients.
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Originally posted by mvaar View PostIf wayland is considered an improvement over xorg ( and I strongly disagree with it, primarily because the same people are doing both and are making the same mistakes ALREADY and what is worse, wayland is still not used by most projects anyway), then Mir is xorg done right. I agree with Mark's notion of an API driven driver, rather than a collection of implemented protocols. In both cases implementations can vary but at least they can be externalized. One only has to look at the popularity of direct X and direct 3D APIs- if its design was anything like X or wayland, it is unlikely to have become popular. Apple's platform benefited from coco and openGL.
Originally posted by mvaar View PostWe ALREADY have a fragmented "display server" platform, without Mir. Can you easily explain to anybody how the display stack works on linux ? And how many paths of direct and indirect rendering a client invocation can make ? And in how many places and libraries the implementation is scattered ?
I think that with an API driven approach that Mir is taking, the driver support will be better, as has been with windows (direct 3D, draw, X etc). Besides, it is unlikely to be affected by kernel upgrades or as is the case now, with (xorg) library changes.
But yes, wayland also has client side and server side APIs (how else should it make sure different programs (clients) can talk to different compositors/WMs (servers) ?). The difference between the Mir and wayland APIs is that waylands APIs are stable while Mir factors them around Unity (and Canonical already told they will break them whenever Unity demands that), so have fun using anything other than (the correct version of) Unity with (the correct version of) Mir.
Better driver support? Both, Wayland and Mir use EGL (or libhybris on android) to talk to the driver. So support will be equal.Last edited by V10lator; 12 June 2014, 04:35 AM.
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Originally posted by TheOne View PostA ready to use implementation of wayland where you only need to hookup your graphic driver into a mature enough interface that wouldn't require you to implement the whole wayland protocol from scratch for different types of hardware.
You have ignored the level of support that Wayland has and that you can use it already, while at the same time saying it isn't mature. Very illogical, or maybe nice to have different levels of expectations: "having Mir is great as Wayland is not entirely mature!".. ehh, right.
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Originally posted by Apopas View PostAnd since when one person represents a community?
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Originally posted by Cerberus View PostIt doesnt but there are more people like him, open any Linux portal that discusses Mir related news and then read the comments
The other thing that you're suggesting is that Mir is being criticized for no particular reason. That's a nice way to ignore the entire history of the incorrect statements about Wayland. Despite them retracting those, they're still being repeated again and again. As a result, you'll have other people refuting that over and over again.
Having well publicized people making claims that they have to send out corrections for or apologize after is not helping. The initial bit is repeated in loads of news stories. The apology/correction is not. What to you get: very critical comments and lack of trust.
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Originally posted by bkor View PostBeing friendly or peachy shouldn't include pretending pretending that everything is great when it is not. I don't see the point of Mir, never understood the reason despite asking many times. You're suggesting that because I criticize the reason for Mir, that I'm not friendly/peachy. Not true at all.
The other thing that you're suggesting is that Mir is being criticized for no particular reason. That's a nice way to ignore the entire history of the incorrect statements about Wayland. Despite them retracting those, they're still being repeated again and again. As a result, you'll have other people refuting that over and over again.
Having well publicized people making claims that they have to send out corrections for or apologize after is not helping. The initial bit is repeated in loads of news stories. The apology/correction is not. What to you get: very critical comments and lack of trust.
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Originally posted by Cerberus View Postbut strangely they dont criticize statements like that from Martin from KDE team that he will not support Mir for "political reasons",
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