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Thread: Fedora 21 Still Aims To Get Rid Of Lots Of Old GPU Drivers

  1. #1
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    Default Fedora 21 Still Aims To Get Rid Of Lots Of Old GPU Drivers

    Phoronix: Fedora 21 Still Aims To Get Rid Of Lots Of Old GPU Drivers

    Fedora 21 when released late in 2014 will effectively retire support for a lot of old graphics card drivers...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTcwNDQ

  2. #2
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    I hope they won't ditch Intel gen4 before the regression with Gnome is fixed
    https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77372
    It would be a shame to put down all those thinkpads on the market

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    Intel 740 is more like "Gen -1", you are on Gen 4, don't worry.

    Everything listed here is useless today and I haven't seen any of those graphic chipsets on the wild today, except SiS. But I've seen a LOT of old computers running with Windows XP and SiS chipsets. I know that the SiS chipset itself is hopelessly beyond any chance of repair (it's BUGGY, and we are talking about HARDWARE bugs), but a basic KMS with XRender accel driver is a must, at least, if we want to retire those PCs with dignity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alejandro Nova View Post
    but a basic KMS with XRender accel driver is a must, at least
    Is KMS really a must? xf86-video-sis provides good UMS, including merged-framebuffer, and it provided that years before xrandr1.2 existed. Many years ago I used to have my SiS laptop connected to an old-school CRT TV via S-Video. Was quite fun, I'd probably still be doing that, except I don't have a CRT TV anymore .

    Likewise xrender accel, is that really a must? EXA was broken in the driver for a while and I got by just fine with shadowfb. Probably because the driver doesn't provide much acceleration anyway, just solid and copy hooks, no composite hook.

    What I'd consider a must is video playback. The driver exposes the hardware overlay via Xv to provide accelerated video presentation. That's the main thing you lose by getting rid of xf86-video-sis. Software video presentation is very CPU intensive, so having hardware help, especially on the old CPUs these SiS machines have, now *that* is a must.

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    Basically you are left with xf86-video-vesa. And while VESA works actually for most things and chips, it lacks any accel and that sucks quite a bunch. I second the plea to retire old PCs in dignity. I mean, I actually still use a lot of old boxes where it makes sense. There is one with a SiS at work I am supervising, a VIA (used for machine driving via RS-232, silent, passive, didn't crash yet or anything). I also use a Geode LX, VIA at home (yeah, still), an old Geforce 2 MX. Well, otherwise it is AMD's APU or a dedicated HD 5670 so no worries there but there ARE a lot of old machines. Also think of automates and stuff with an interface. They often run these cheap, low power low heat low maintenance 2D-Chipsets. Well, you probably won't run Fedora on these machines but still...
    I think one of the big big strenghtes of Linux (or say userland + some unixish kernel) is that there is still support for these good old monsters.

    Most modern Desktops suck at increasing productivity with all those 3D bells and whistles. There are a few good things but most is pure gaming and eyecandy.

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    Default I would love to use Fedora if only...

    I would love to use Fedora as my desktop distro of choice, if only their package management was better. Fedora has many admirable qualities, like state-of-the-art security (ie Selinux), they were first with SystemD, and now they are pushing Wayland faster than anyone else. And although it's not so important to me, Fedora does make a nice-looking desktop with pretty fonts - aesthetics is one area that they devote a lot of attention to.

    Every time there is a new Fedora release, I download it and give it a try. But I always wind up deleting it and going back to either Debian or Ubuntu. This is in part because Fedora's package manager, YUM, is really slow compared to apt-get. But even more important, a number of packages that I need are just not there in Fedora, forcing me to either seek some inferior substitute program or just live without it. I've even gone so far as trying to compile the missing apps from source, but that usually just sends me into dependency hell and results in wasted hours downloading and compiling with no success. Most recent fiasco was when I bought a new printer - a very common HP Deskjet - and couldn't get it to work with Fedora (Ubuntu had no problem).

    Fedora, I want to love you, but you need to look at Debian and Ubuntu and see if can make your distro at least as useful as theirs. Eye-candy is not enough - at the end of the day, I need a computer "that just works."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    Fedora's package manager, YUM, is really slow compared to apt-get.
    LOL. Liar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    LOL. Liar.
    Well, I cannot say anything about the package manager but there's no decent Fedora mirror in my country (I have looked for one several times). Whereas the Ubuntu mirror is 1ms away and I download from there with 9MBytes/s! So to me the Fedora package management would be waaaaay slower.

    But more importantly, the installer is a piece of junk. I am pretty competent Linux user yet I couldn't even install Fedora 20 Beta. Apparently, it doesn't deal well with existing partitions. And god forbid having a BTRFS partition even on a separate disc which you don't even want to touch during the install. Is there a text-based installer in F20? I may try that. I always install Debian and Ubuntu over the network with the minimal netboot text-based installer and it rocks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kobblestown View Post
    But more importantly, the installer is a piece of junk. I am pretty competent Linux user yet I couldn't even install Fedora 20 Beta. Apparently, it doesn't deal well with existing partitions. And god forbid having a BTRFS partition even on a separate disc which you don't even want to touch during the install. Is there a text-based installer in F20? I may try that. I always install Debian and Ubuntu over the network with the minimal netboot text-based installer and it rocks!
    That. The installer *is* hopelessly crap.
    I have two machines on which it *simply does not work*. My laptop and my wife's desktop. You cannot install Fedora on them. I solve by pulling the disk and inserting it into the one machine I *do* have (my desktop) where the Fedora installer DOES work.

    It really needs a LOT of work to fix up the handling of disks and uefi. I don't like that it forces you to install as uefi on machines that advertise that they have it. It *never* successfully installs on such machines. I want a stronger interface for customizing partitions, and one that doesn't CRASH AND REBOOT when you actually get a good custom layout configured.

    The package configuration section works acceptably, even if it is somewhat weak. The "installation source" part is OK if you tell it to install from the network. For some unfathomable reason, if you try installing packages from the install disk, it can't find some packages, crashes, and reboots.


    So, the Fedora 19/20 install process works like this;
    1) Backup all data from the disk that you want to preserve, because there is no way to save it.
    2) Yank disk out and insert into known non-uefi desktop computer,
    3) Unplug all OTHER disks from that computer.
    4) Start installer, pick your install configuration from the list (MATE desktop, obviously),
    5) Set install source to NETWORK NEAREST REPO,
    6) Set TARGET to that disk, and let it set it up with its defaults, otherwise it will probably crash,
    7) Hit the "go" button.
    8) Return disk to from where it came,
    9) Plug all the disks back in that install computer.
    10) File a bug report.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    Every time there is a new Fedora release, I download it and give it a try. But I always wind up deleting it and going back to either Debian or Ubuntu. This is in part because Fedora's package manager, YUM, is really slow compared to apt-get.
    Considering that they are basically the same thing under a different name, I call B.S. The time delay for package installation on Fedora is always the actual DOWNLOAD, and a few years ago, they swiched to delta-rpm, which means that only the *changes* get downloaded. Package updates and installs just *scream* through. 500 package updates process in just a few seconds. They literally scroll past faster than you can even make out the package names on the screen.

    Or are you using a 1990's spinning magnet for data storage?

    But even more important, a number of packages that I need are just not there in Fedora, forcing me to either seek some inferior substitute program or just live without it. I've even gone so far as trying to compile the missing apps from source, but that usually just sends me into dependency hell and results in wasted hours downloading and compiling with no success. Most recent fiasco was when I bought a new printer - a very common HP Deskjet - and couldn't get it to work with Fedora (Ubuntu had no problem).
    Install dependencies from packages before you custom compile anything. Don't install dependencies from source unless you really can't avoid it. What programs are you trying to install that aren't available from repositories?

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