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Thread: Matthew Garrett: How-To Drive Developers From OS X To Linux

  1. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nille View Post
    Huu? Look what Google is using and what the GNU/Linux Desktop is using. They all like the Kernel but the rest not.
    So what you're saying is...
    ChromeOS isn't linux because it's not using GNU userland?

    Linux is getting plenty of adoption. What's not getting adoption is GNU.

  2. #12
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    Question BSDs

    Quote Originally Posted by deanjo View Post
    ... the documentation ...
    When it comes to linux development however, you are usually dealing with outdated or poorly written documentation (rarely with even a few basic code examples) and end up praying your googlefu is strong and hopefully find the answer you are looking for in a mailing list archive or forum. While those resources are OK for an old school veteran, they are often too daunting and frustrating for a novice. Man and readme's are a shitty way of trying to encourage the novice to start development as well. Then there is also the inconsistency of packaging naming and availability, file system hierarchy, multiple API/tool kits/libraries that overlap in the functionality they wish to provide (and usually none being a complete solution), sometimes rude and snotty replies from project heads towards the novice, etc.

    Providing a desktop environment is important, but a properly managed documentation and support resources are more important to drawing in more developers.
    So why don't you give one of the BSDs a try?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by peppercats View Post
    So what you're saying is...
    ChromeOS isn't linux because it's not using GNU userland?
    I say that it is Linux but not GNU/Linux and what we associate with it. Its the same with Android. It is Linux but not GNU/Linux.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nille View Post
    I say that it is Linux but not GNU/Linux and what we associate with it. Its the same with Android. It is Linux but not GNU/Linux.
    Uhm, as far as I understand Android still uses GCC, grep, ls, etc. Those are the GNU userland tools screaming out the most. I bet I'm just scratching the surface of what other GNU tools are used by Google for Android.
    Last edited by BSDude; 05-19-2014 at 04:39 AM.

  5. #15
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    OS X is a more complete platform. People will migrate to whatever tool let's them work with the least headache because it is a tool nothing more.

  6. #16
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    Default

    Strangely, I find myself to fight and struggle against the computer every time I have to use a Mac at work.

    There should be formations to i3wm in schools

  7. #17
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    The last decade it seems everybody is looking for simple answers to why linux adoption on desktop is weak. I believe all factors typically brought up are contributing, whether it be lack of documentation, hardware support, software support or rapid changes/breakage of desktop experience. What does seem clear is that the majority of desktop users have very little patience for hassle. Even minor hassles can be enough to push users over to other solutions. This basically means that linux on the desktop still has a way to go before being a viable option. I do believe that we are slowly getting there, and that GNU/Linux today is viable for an increasing number of people. However, with Canonical now going at it alone, I am afraid we have been pushed back another five years. There is currently no other distribution stepping up to become a mainstream option.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
    Linux has never been a targeted Consumer OS Platform. To do so would require a unified set of Frameworks to develop said UI.

    Which is called Qt.

  9. #19
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    Default It's the hardware (and drivers)

    I almost bought a MacBook Pro Retina instead of a Thinkpad, and I don't like OS X or Apple's walled garden at all. My girlfriend's new retina MacBook feels like a higher quality machine than my new Thinkpad. Lenovo put in a crappier screen than promised, the trackpad is only so-so and the laptop overall just doesn't have the same feel to it that older Thinkpads had. I could be convinced to stand on top of a T42, but I'm not going to risk doing that with the latest T440s range.

    No matter how hardcore open-source and Linux/*BSD I am, these days I want to buy something that just works when it comes to basic hardware and drivers; even though I know how to fix most problems, I just don't want to bother.

    I imagine the main reason even seasoned Linux users and developers get Apple laptops is because they Just Work. It's easier to start out with a high quality working MacBook and install Virtualbox than to start messing with installation media, graphics and peripheral drivers and Xorg configuration. Even configuring something as basic as a trackpad to not be irritating is still a struggle.

    The preference for Apple has probably less to do with Linux itself than the sorry state of hardware support from vendors and quality of average consumer-oriented laptops. Come up with a LinuxBook that feels and works out of the box like a MacBook, and more people would use Linux... Something like the Chromebook Pixel, but less handicapped.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_ View Post
    The last decade it seems everybody is looking for simple answers to why linux adoption on desktop is weak. I believe all factors typically brought up are contributing, whether it be lack of documentation, hardware support, software support or rapid changes/breakage of desktop experience. What does seem clear is that the majority of desktop users have very little patience for hassle. Even minor hassles can be enough to push users over to other solutions. This basically means that linux on the desktop still has a way to go before being a viable option. I do believe that we are slowly getting there, and that GNU/Linux today is viable for an increasing number of people. However, with Canonical now going at it alone, I am afraid we have been pushed back another five years. There is currently no other distribution stepping up to become a mainstream option.
    I don't know if there is a desire in the Linux community for Linux to be a mainstream option. I think the push is as it always has been to flexibility, with mainstream adoption there needs to be tech support and hand holding the community cannot do that in a direct enough way. My opinion is they would prefer Linux to remain an option not the go-to for Windows drop outs.

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