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  • PHP5's Successor Might Be PHP7

    Phoronix: PHP5's Successor Might Be PHP7

    PHP developers are currently debating whether the next-generation version of the PHP programming language is to be known as PHP 6 or PHP 7...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTc0NjE

  • #2
    I think that's reasonable. Most pre 2009 books about php 6 covers some features of php 5.3.

    But I don't think that next version sould be 7.0. 5.7 is better number. 7.0 should be jit.

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    • #3
      Who's going to read pre-2009 PHP books anyway ?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by lethal View Post
        Who's going to read pre-2009 PHP books anyway ?
        Yeah, if the book is about server-side programming and is older than like 3 years - throw it in the trash can.

        Anyway, I read that PHP is a wacky and funny language with childish/rushed decisions because its author had issues, is it still true and will it be true for PHP 7?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mark45 View Post
          Anyway, I read that PHP is a wacky and funny language with childish/rushed decisions because its author had issues, is it still true and will it be true for PHP 7?
          The list of PHP flaws is quite long. But from my POV most of these flaws are not meaningful.

          For me the biggest PHP issue is speed. I like modern PHP frameworks.

          On the other hand you have really good and fast language - C++ that lacks of really good web framework. There is nothing like C++ Symfony or Zend with good ORM.

          So you have crappy language or crappy frameworks

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          • #6
            Originally posted by mark45 View Post
            Yeah, if the book is about server-side programming and is older than like 3 years - throw it in the trash can.

            Anyway, I read that PHP is a wacky and funny language with childish/rushed decisions because its author had issues, is it still true and will it be true for PHP 7?
            PHP is so broken that I'm skeptical they could fix all of the problems and still have something existing PHP programmers would recognize.

            Read PHP: a fractal of bad design and then realize that it's not a complete list.

            (eg. The article doesn't mention that it's literally impossible to get raw decoded pixel data more efficiently than calling imagecolorat() once per pixel when using the PHP GD bindings because they wrap the C API so directly that they don't provide a replacement for "The handle is just a pointer. Dereference it if you need raw pixel data for something like equality comparison of two decoded lossless images.")
            Last edited by ssokolow; 07-21-2014, 05:43 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by michal View Post
              The list of PHP flaws is quite long. But from my POV most of these flaws are not meaningful.

              For me the biggest PHP issue is speed. I like modern PHP frameworks.

              On the other hand you have really good and fast language - C++ that lacks of really good web framework. There is nothing like C++ Symfony or Zend with good ORM.

              So you have crappy language or crappy frameworks
              You don't have a C++ symfony, but you got orm with annotation: http://www.codesynthesis.com/products/odb/

              EDIT: I agree so much with you. PHP is one of the worst language but with the best tool for the web. We really need a symfony for C++ or something like that. I heard that cppcms was not that bad, but I never tryed.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by gufide View Post
                I heard that cppcms was not that bad, but I never tryed.
                CppCMS if well documented - compared to other C++ frameworks, but it's still not enough. There is a thing called cppcmsskel - that might help if you want to start using cppcms, but it's not well documented and there was no mysql/postgresql support when I tried it. Unfortunately I don't have much time for such things like framework development, so I can not help improve situation.

                Maybe someday I'll learn WT and I'll buy commercial license for this framework. But there is no large market for web services in c++, so I don't have any pressure. I've only one project in my mind that could be a killer app because of c++ performance.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                  Phoronix: PHP5's Successor Might Be PHP7

                  PHP developers are currently debating whether the next-generation version of the PHP programming language is to be known as PHP 6 or PHP 7...

                  http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTc0NjE
                  I really think Perl developers need to do something like this -- just admit that they bit off too much and take another run at it.

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                  • #10
                    They need to make a new version called NoPHP.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mark45 View Post
                      Anyway, I read that PHP is a wacky and funny language with childish/rushed decisions because its author had issues, is it still true and will it be true for PHP 7?
                      That seems an odd thing to say. PHP is almost twenty years old, and most of it's flaws aren't due to quirks of the author - they're because they seemed like good ideas back at the time when building web pages with something like PHP was a real novelty.. True, it doesn't compare so well after so all those years - the design is showing it's age - but don't forget that when comparing it with modern frameworks.

                      PHP is *old* by the standards of web trends... for comparison, there was no such thing as CSS when the first version of PHP was released, and Javascript was a little-used novelty. Netscape 3 was considered a state-of-the-art browser, and Internet Explorer, that bane of web developers, had yet to be released.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by michal View Post
                        The list of PHP flaws is quite long. But from my POV most of these flaws are not meaningful.

                        For me the biggest PHP issue is speed. I like modern PHP frameworks.

                        On the other hand you have really good and fast language - C++ that lacks of really good web framework. There is nothing like C++ Symfony or Zend with good ORM.

                        So you have crappy language or crappy frameworks
                        There is one called Wt. I have heard it is quite like Qt and handles a lot of things and using modern web technologies. It also abstracts a lot of HTML designing as my friend says. I haven't dived into it personally though.
                        Last edited by the303; 07-22-2014, 03:35 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by the303 View Post
                          It also abstracts a lot of HTML designing as my friend says.
                          I hope it's not this kind of nightmare like qcodo. V in MVC doesn't mean that you must have helpers for creating tables.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It seems that people here talking bullcrap about the language havent played with it since version 4. Please inform your selfs before... the language now even supports namespaces, closures, generators, etc... pretty up to date for me. Theres even a framework for async stuff like nodejs named reactphp. Also hhvm has evolved the language with scalar type hinting and class templates. At leasr scalar type hinting is going to make it into php 5.7. In any case I agree with othe poster that next release should just be 5.7 and 7.0 when they add jit to phpng which is the 5.7 branch

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                            • #15
                              Whatever version comes next, I hope it is going to break compatibility in major ways. For the sake of security.

                              As of PHP5, it is nearly impossible to write safe code. Even the smallest language constructs are compromized (right down to operators). Every once in a while I discover some new 'feature' in PHP (usually reading a sidenote on StackOverflow, or an obscure forum comment) that makes me go 'OH SHIT!' because I know I've got a security bug in dozens of previously written webapps. And I consider myself to be a very security-conscious coder.

                              I generally assume that 50% to 80% of all PHP applications are compromised. 5% may be well tested and secure, and whatever remains is secure by plain luck (or simplicity) alone.

                              I've gone as far as refuse to claim, to clients, that my products are safe. I wish the creators of PHP would share my honesty.
                              Last edited by Remdul; 07-22-2014, 08:39 AM. Reason: typo

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