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Linux hacker compares Solaris kernel code:

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  • #16
    Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
    Hm... Should I get into this?


    At the university I attend (in at least one department) there are some Solaris servers that run just fine. They host a couple of linux VMs that also run fine. There are also some Linux and some Windows servers that also run fine.

    The last time I tried OpenSolaris (some time ago) it definitely had a higher memory footprint than an equivalent linux system and I think I noticed that it was a little bit slower. But all in all it was ok.

    What I have not seen from any of the trolls here is any actual data on how much slower (or unreliable or whatever they claim) it really is.

    Now I personally do prefer Linux and I think I prefer the GPL too. But I don't see how repeating unfounded claims over and over again helps your "cause" in any way.

    Soooo, please back up your claims or keep quiet. Thanks.
    It's enough to check server and HPC market share. They were dominated by UNIX, but Linux has wiped them out. It's such simple. The same when comes to stock exchanges which are one of the most demanding and critical workloads.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
      Con was kicked out from Linux development
      He wasn't. But that's usual trolling BS. Nice job :-) You must have no real life whatsoever, right?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
        He wasn't. But that's usual trolling BS. Nice job :-) You must have no real life whatsoever, right?
        I said "we can assume". I know he left development, but I bet it was because Ingo has replaced his role. He's envy now. According to number of my posts I have more life than you.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
          It seems Con loves bloated and crappy code and that's why he wrote few good things about slowlaris. Furthermore, we can admit Con was kicked out from Linux development and I bet he was too weak. Oracle should hire him, so he will be able to write a code that will crawl like a turtle in real workloads.
          No, Con is one of the best developers. He introduced BFS, that is much better scheduler for desktop systems. You don't want Linux on desktop?

          That said, I think he is very competent so he must be correct on topic.

          Also, remember that "better" is an enemy of "good". So in order to progress one must find weaknessess to be able to combat them.

          This is why in this angle criticism is very good. You don't kick out developers for criticism - this way you will end up with a bunch of "agree" types that can't improve anything, because they agree that current state is always good.

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          • #20
            This is what open source is about, to look at code and understand how others solved an problem and to be inspired.
            If someone made something nice then good for them.
            I can't understand the big fuss here.

            @ kebabbert fungerar din sun-ray du fick av Sun fortfarande?

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            • #21
              Hey, 'kraftman', aka 'OpenSLOWlaris', aka 'BSDSucksDicks', aka 'i386reaper', aka 'Linux Anals Solaris', etc... SUCK THAT!

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              • #22
                Not subscribing to this FUD-fest of a troll feast, so don't count on me coming back
                But it seems that just about everyone has entirely missed the point of what Con Kolivas wrote (two and a half years ago, so someone is dragging through ancient history):
                Now this would be a great time to take my comments out of context without reading on. The problem is that here was a scheduler that did exactly what I hate about what the Linux kernel scheduler is becoming. It's a monstrosity of epic proportions, and as far as an aircraft goes, it's like taking an Airbus A380 on a short joyride if you're running it on a desktop.
                ...
                So what do I think of it now? It looks like an excellent design for a completely different purpose. It's built like a commercial design for commercial purposes that have very different requirements than what most of us use Linux for, but it does appear to have been done so very well.
                Basically, it's tidy, and thorough, but overly thorough to the point of bloat. You can write code well and still get bloat.
                Kebbabert is taking it out of context, Pawlerson is falling for it and getting Con Kolivas's meaning backwards, and most of the other posters are just embarking on a trollfest that is related only to the operating systems involved.

                But by all means, carry on! I'd love it if Kebbabert can keep some of the trolls occupied outside the potentially interesting threads.

                ~A Linux user who's gotten disgusted by certain fudsters who attempt to promote Linux and thereby make it less attractive.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                  Not subscribing to this FUD-fest of a troll feast, so don't count on me coming back
                  But it seems that just about everyone has entirely missed the point of what Con Kolivas wrote (two and a half years ago, so someone is dragging through ancient history):

                  Basically, it's tidy, and thorough, but overly thorough to the point of bloat. You can write code well and still get bloat.
                  Kebbabert is taking it out of context, Pawlerson is falling for it and getting Con Kolivas's meaning backwards, and most of the other posters are just embarking on a trollfest that is related only to the operating systems involved.

                  But by all means, carry on! I'd love it if Kebbabert can keep some of the trolls occupied outside the potentially interesting threads.

                  ~A Linux user who's gotten disgusted by certain fudsters who attempt to promote Linux and thereby make it less attractive.
                  Well, even 10 years ago is not ancient history; like if a new scheduler came out ever week...

                  So the Solaris code is much more than a casual user might need, but, as far as I know, Solaris is all about scaling. How'd it perform under the most demanding conditions, or in architectures from 20 years from now? Maybe it isn't so bloated after all if you think like this.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                    It's enough to check server and HPC market share.
                    To see what is popular, yes.

                    Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                    They were dominated by UNIX, but Linux has wiped them out. It's such simple. The same when comes to stock exchanges which are one of the most demanding and critical workloads.
                    Yes, that's nice and all, but why does this cause this trolling?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by brosis View Post
                      No, Con is one of the best developers. He introduced BFS, that is much better scheduler for desktop systems. You don't want Linux on desktop?

                      That said, I think he is very competent so he must be correct on topic.

                      Also, remember that "better" is an enemy of "good". So in order to progress one must find weaknessess to be able to combat them.

                      This is why in this angle criticism is very good. You don't kick out developers for criticism - this way you will end up with a bunch of "agree" types that can't improve anything, because they agree that current state is always good.
                      There is not one single responsible person on the planet who would actually use BFS. The reality of it is that it is an epic bloody mess of contradictions that are guaranteed to explode in just about every circumstance. I have tried it, and it was a nightmare of hesitation and crashes.

                      Secondly, you should never assume that your opponent is completely flawed and retarded. I'm sure that there are great things about the solaris code. Lots of them. As well as bad things.

                      Not to say that Con isn't entitled to his views on the "neatness" of the solaris code, but one really has to wonder whether he was comparing it to the Linux code, or **his own**.
                      Last edited by droidhacker; 05-06-2013, 08:57 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Nille_kungen View Post
                        This is what open source is about, to look at code and understand how others solved an problem and to be inspired.
                        If someone made something nice then good for them.
                        I can't understand the big fuss here.
                        Exactly! (10chars)

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by brosis View Post
                          No, Con is one of the best developers. He introduced BFS, that is much better scheduler for desktop systems. You don't want Linux on desktop?

                          That said, I think he is very competent so he must be correct on topic.
                          Not true at all. Linux on desktop is actually using CFS. I remember Con's scheduler in the past and it was disaster. 3D games were unplayable and sound has stuttered a lot. Afaik CFS was introduced in 2.6.23 and it has changed my desktop experience.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChrisXY View Post
                            To see what is popular, yes.
                            To see what is better.

                            Yes, that's nice and all, but why does this cause this trolling?
                            It's simple: slowlaris folks and fanboys like Kebabbert can't accept an obvious fact that Linux wiped this OS out from nearly every market. The reason of trolling is envy.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                              Hey, 'kraftman', aka 'OpenSLOWlaris', aka 'BSDSucksDicks', aka 'i386reaper', aka 'Linux Anals Solaris', etc... SUCK THAT!
                              Why do you think they're the same person? Is it because they hate solaris and bsd? Do I have to love them to not be considered as OpenSLOWlaris etc? Furthermore, if someone's trolling here it's Kebabbert who dig out very old Con's quote. Don't you see that? Or perhaps, you're only seeing when someone attacks everything except Linux?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                                Not true at all. Linux on desktop is actually using CFS. I remember Con's scheduler in the past and it was disaster. 3D games were unplayable and sound has stuttered a lot. Afaik CFS was introduced in 2.6.23 and it has changed my desktop experience.
                                I use BFS on zenkernel in Debian. Maybe its time for a good benchmark of schedulers, not only in numbers but in application switch times etc, something that Michael can't do because it would require drifting outside of what PTS can measure.

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