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The OpenSolaris-based Illumos Project Announced

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kebabbert View Post
    Regarding BTRFS and FTrace or Systemtap - they are just copies. Solaris shows the way and ZFS and DTrace are provenly good and delivers today. Linux may have grand plans for the Solaris copies, but I doubt Linux devs will succeed. For instance, BTRFS will always be lagging behind ZFS. It takes at least 5 years, before version 1.0 of filesystem is let into the server halls. When BTRFS is v1.0 it will take another 5 years of debugging and development before it is let into the server halls. Meanwhile, ZFS will continue development and new functionality. BTRFS will always lag behind.

    And, does BTRFS provide data safety like ZFS does? I doubt that. I think that if Oracle where serious about BTRFS, then Oracle would dedicate a full team, not like now: one full time paid developer. I think Oracle will bet on the original: ZFS and let BTRFS handle it self. ZFS is better than BTRFS, why develop two identical products, and one product is a copy of the other?
    Are there papers which backup this? Otherwise it's a pure FUD.

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    • #17
      Who cares about what Solaris has to offer? What matters is that as much software as possible is free software. That alone justifies the project in my book.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kraftman View Post
        Are there papers which backup this? Otherwise it's a pure FUD.
        Backup what? A research paper saying that "BTRFS is a copy of ZFS"? Are you serious?



        Would you like me to ask you:
        "Are there any research papers that say "Linux scales well" or "Linux is stable"? No? Then it is pure FUD to frighten Linux' competitors".

        Not very clever, heh?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          Did actually anyone mention that OpenSolaris was crippled? I once made the mistake to install it on a test server. It was only then that I discovered that you had to pay in order for the update functionality to work. No money = no security updates.


          This has never happened on any OpenSolaris install I have made, and I've made a few. That's very strange.

          Did you install Solaris Express or Solaris 10 by mistake or something?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by joffe View Post


            This has never happened on any OpenSolaris install I have made, and I've made a few. That's very strange.

            Did you install Solaris Express or Solaris 10 by mistake or something?
            Nope, it was OpenSolaris. I was in the same boat as this guy:

            http://openfoo.org/blog/opensolaris_...y_updates.html

            Updates counted as "support" and you needed to subscribe and pay.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kraftman View Post
              Are you suggesting Linux doesn't work there? Or just saying you didn't try nothing except Solaris?
              Solaris has a long history in mission-critical applications; that doesn't mean that Linux won't work there, but it does mean that you could be pretty certain that anything you put on a Solaris system would run and keep on running without random crashes.

              Well, aside from the earliest versions which would kernel panic if you tried to access the floppy device, anyway .

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                Did actually anyone mention that OpenSolaris was crippled? I once made the mistake to install it on a test server. It was only then that I discovered that you had to pay in order for the update functionality to work. No money = no security updates.
                A new build of OpenSolaris was released for free every 2nd week, where they fix bugs and add new functionality. Some people say think that is OpenSolaris updates.

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                • #23
                  Does installing an OS every two weeks seem kind of brain damaged only to me?

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                  • #24
                    It's nice to see the OpenSolaris codebase surviving a takeover in the way that only open-source software can, but I suspect Illumos will stay relatively obscure. The Solaris legacy may help it overtake the BSDs, but I doubt it will make it much further than that. An open-source OS can't overtake Linux without a strong community, and that takes tremendous time and effort. Plus, I think the CDDL will discourage a lot of would-be contributors from contributing.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by movieman View Post
                      Solaris has a long history in mission-critical applications; that doesn't mean that Linux won't work there, but it does mean that you could be pretty certain that anything you put on a Solaris system would run and keep on running without random crashes.
                      That's right. I appreciate you're fair.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                        Does installing an OS every two weeks seem kind of brain damaged only to me?
                        You didn't have to reinstall, you just pointed to the dev IPS repo and it was like the experience of using Apt-Get on Debian. Every two weeks it would tell you ye had updates, do you want to install. They system would then create a "Boot environment" using ZFS snapshots. This way if the new build broke your system you just simply boot into old boot environment. I used this to upgrade from 2009.06 (b111) all the way to b134. As I mentioned it was equivalent to doing "apt-get update"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                          Does installing an OS every two weeks seem kind of brain damaged only to me?
                          Yes, that seems brain damaged to me too.

                          Fortunately, you got updates of OpenSolaris every two weeks. Not a new OpenSolaris dist. Ubuntu updates packages every(?) week. Some would consider those updates as patches.

                          Someone complained that OpenSolaris was crippled and he got no patches without paying. Well, you got updates every 2nd week. That is an update.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by kebabbert View Post
                            Yes, that seems brain damaged to me too.

                            Fortunately, you got updates of OpenSolaris every two weeks. Not a new OpenSolaris dist. Ubuntu updates packages every(?) week. Some would consider those updates as patches.

                            Someone complained that OpenSolaris was crippled and he got no patches without paying. Well, you got updates every 2nd week. That is an update.
                            I think he's talking about Solaris Express there for some reason.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                              Are you suggesting Linux doesn't work there? Or just saying you didn't try nothing except Solaris?
                              I'm saying that it would be a large effort to port all of the existing code over to Linux and test it in a Linux environment.

                              A lot of our stuff is perl, shell, and other interpreted scripts, but there is some Lisp stuff and a bunch of C code that's left over from earlier which is Solaris specific. That being said, we do run quite a few CentOS machines at work, and we're slowing adding compatibility with CentOS in order to replace Solaris where possible, but at best we'll get to the point where you can do all of your work on either OS.

                              I don't think we'll manage to completely abandon Solaris before the end of our current mission (up to 10 years from now). The next mission's software will probably have Linux compatibility as a requirement.

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