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  • Kernel Mode-Setting Coming To OpenSolaris

    Phoronix: Kernel Mode-Setting Coming To OpenSolaris

    Kernel mode-setting has been in development for quite a while on Linux and was finally pushed into the Linux 2.6.29 kernel. Kernel mode-setting allows a clean, flicker-free boot experience, fast VT switching, reliable suspend-and-resume support, and there's also other benefits...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NzIwMA

  • #2
    "Linux guys rule, others drool"

    KMS is too nice a feature for it not to be adopted by others.

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    • #3
      IBM should buy Sun soon, stop duplicating work

      Seriously, why can't IBM just buy Sun out already and redirect efforts toward Linux development. This duplication of work between FOSS operating systems, where all features have to be reimplemented because of Sun's choice to release OpenSolaris in a GPL-incompatible license, is getting annoying.

      Comment


      • #4
        why do some news open a new tab, when i click on the comments button and others dont?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Pfanne View Post
          why do some news open a new tab, when i click on the comments button and others dont?
          Sometimes editors seem to use "phxcms_normal_format", other times they use "phxcms_navigation_format". The latter pops up the new tab. In the spirit of OSS, I implore you to click on "view page source" when questions like this arise.

          F

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          • #6
            Originally posted by stan View Post
            Seriously, why can't IBM just buy Sun out already and redirect efforts toward Linux development. This duplication of work between FOSS operating systems, where all features have to be reimplemented because of Sun's choice to release OpenSolaris in a GPL-incompatible license, is getting annoying.
            Yeah, the number of different operating systems is such a bad thing! Why can't all the *NIX lovers just ditch their favourite operating systems and get a job at Microsoft and start working on Windows 8, eh ???

            And stan, you seriously would expect that all those OpenSolaris developers would magically want to work on improving Linux, they are on OpenSolaris precisely because they *like* OpenSolaris *more* than Linux. If IBM were to buy Sun, they have 2 options: A) keep OpenSolaris alive and hence nothing changes B) fire the OpenSolaris team as there is no incentive for IBM to keep the kernel devs to work on the Linux kernel (and they're OpenSolaris kernel specialists, not Linux kernel), they can get everything for free anyway.

            Since you seem to be going for plan [B] I don't quite see how is that going to help Linux, other than just kill competition.

            I've seen a number of people saying similar things to FOSS devs about *nix apps, "can't you stop developing for that operating system nobody uses and switch the development to Windows, the duplication of efforts between your project and project B which runs on Windows but doesn't have the features your program A has is just sooo annoying".

            If you don't like OpenSolaris, good for you. But saying the same thing everytime a new post about OpenSolaris appears is getting really old now.

            BTW: While you're at it: you probably should contact MINIX devs [http://www.minix3.org/], Apple[Mac OS X], *BSD devs, and etc. and make sure to let them know that their efforts are futile and they should all just use Linux instead. Apparently Google also accepted MINIX, DragonflyBSD, The FreeBSD Project and NetBSD for GSoc 2009, might be a good idea to contact Google directly and tell them that they shouldn't be sponsoring misguided efforts.
            Last edited by etacarinae; 04-12-2009, 04:37 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by etacarinae View Post
              Yeah, the number of different operating systems is such a bad thing! Why can't all the *NIX lovers just ditch their favourite operating systems and get a job at Microsoft and start working on Windows 8, eh ???

              And stan, you seriously would expect that all those OpenSolaris developers would magically want to work on improving Linux, they are on OpenSolaris precisely because they *like* OpenSolaris *more* than Linux. If IBM were to buy Sun, they have 2 options: A) keep OpenSolaris alive and hence nothing changes B) fire the OpenSolaris team as there is no incentive for IBM to keep the kernel devs to work on the Linux kernel (and they're OpenSolaris kernel specialists, not Linux kernel), they can get everything for free anyway.

              Since you seem to be going for plan [B] I don't quite see how is that going to help Linux, other than just kill competition.

              I've seen a number of people saying similar things to FOSS devs about *nix apps, "can't you stop developing for that operating system nobody uses and switch the development to Windows, the duplication of efforts between your project and project B which runs on Windows but doesn't have the features your program A has is just sooo annoying".

              If you don't like OpenSolaris, good for you. But saying the same thing everytime a new post about OpenSolaris appears is getting really old now.

              BTW: While you're at it: you probably should contact MINIX devs [http://www.minix3.org/], Apple[Mac OS X], *BSD devs, and etc. and make sure to let them know that their efforts are futile and they should all just use Linux instead. Apparently Google also accepted MINIX, DragonflyBSD, The FreeBSD Project and NetBSD for GSoc 2009, might be a good idea to contact Google directly and tell them that they shouldn't be sponsoring misguided efforts.
              Aren't you being a little bit harsh here? His suggestion wasn't all that bad; there's also a lot of duplication in *BSD community, for example.

              It's the same deal as was with Compiz and Beryl. Sometimes the whole fork culture just turns the people who do it into a laughing stock. Just because you -can- do something doesn't mean you have to. Forks are more than not a matter of ego (see OpenBSD). I'm not saying competition is needless, but sometimes the reasons are not justified and quite ludicrous. Maybe the BSDs never managed to become a real competition to Linux because those people's talent is getting spread like butter over too much bread.

              I personally think the suggestion wasn't all that bad. A few more developers joining the development of Linux wouldn't hurt (especially if they're specialised in ZFS etc).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by susikala View Post
                I'm not saying competition is needless, but sometimes the reasons are not justified and quite ludicrous. Maybe the BSDs never managed to become a real competition to Linux because those people's talent is getting spread like butter over too much bread.

                I personally think the suggestion wasn't all that bad. A few more developers joining the development of Linux wouldn't hurt (especially if they're specialised in ZFS etc).
                To you it might be a good idea because you use Linux, I use OpenSolaris, and I don't want it to disappear just because some people from the Linux camp want it so.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by stan View Post
                  Seriously, why can't IBM just buy Sun out already and redirect efforts toward Linux development. This duplication of work between FOSS operating systems, where all features have to be reimplemented because of Sun's choice to release OpenSolaris in a GPL-incompatible license, is getting annoying.
                  Similar situation is when comes to Open Source games, but who has right to say devs should cooperate and focus only on this or another game?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                    Similar situation is when comes to Open Source games, but who has right to say devs should cooperate and focus only on this or another game?
                    Their Boss, the guy who pays their salary. I don't know about game devs, but if IBM tells Sun employees to dedicate their skills toward improving Linux that would be wonderful.

                    As for etacarinae's claim that OpenSolaris devs simply won't work on Linux because they don't like it, I think that is naive. First of all the skill sets for kernel writing are the same. And secondly, by participating in Linux development, they'd be able to shape the technical aspects of Linux to better fit their idea of the "perfect" operating system. And if that means bringing the good aspects of OpenSolaris to Linux (ZFS, DTrace, etc), than by all means, so be it.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by stan View Post
                      Their Boss, the guy who pays their salary. I don't know about game devs, but if IBM tells Sun employees to dedicate their skills toward improving Linux that would be wonderful.
                      Yes, because IBM is well known for being a charitable and open company, and all of their products are open-source and they like contributing back to the community so much, eh, what ? IBM would fire most of the team, reduce the salaries of the remaining engineers and would have them work on things IBM needs to make money rather than just "go ahead and improve Linux, make the world a better place".

                      As for etacarinae's claim that OpenSolaris devs simply won't work on Linux because they don't like it, I think that is naive. First of all the skill sets for kernel writing are the same. And secondly, by participating in Linux development, they'd be able to shape the technical aspects of Linux to better fit their idea of the "perfect" operating system.
                      First of all, I was referring to the community as a whole, not just the people hired by Sun. Secondly, you seriously think talented people work just for the money ? The process would be completely changed, the upstreaming would get much harder as it would have to go through people like Linus, who can get annoyed at anyone just because he can. Not to mention that there would be tons of architectural disagreements that Linus & co. would simply veto.

                      And you really think that those talented people after working so many years on Solaris/OpenSolaris, writing books about it, working hard to build a community, and so on, would suddenly without a second thought feel miraculously relieved to finally work on that next best thing called Linux ? Now this is naive, you, for some reason talk of Linux as if "everyone knows it's the best thing anyway" and the devs working on OpenSolaris are working on it just because they're forced to, poor chaps.

                      Yes, some people left to work for RedHat, some to work for Apple, and so on but those who remain are dedicated to OpenSolaris.

                      P.S. I hope you will not find my reply too offensive and/or aggressive, but try to understand how it would feel if someone were to tell you that "we should just take the best bits from Linux and port them to OpenSolaris, then ditch Linux altogether as it's useless" and expect the Linux community to just nod and be happy about the move. This is essentially what your comment means to me.
                      Last edited by etacarinae; 04-13-2009, 01:08 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stan View Post
                        This duplication of work between FOSS operating systems, where all features have to be reimplemented because of Sun's choice to release OpenSolaris in a GPL-incompatible license, is getting annoying.
                        Who said anything about re-implementing? Kernel mode setting is a feature of DRI, which is maintained under a BSD license so the code can be shared between the BSD's and Linux, and yes, even OpenSolaris.

                        The interfaces with the rest of the kernel are different, but much of the code is still common between all three.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by etacarinae View Post
                          ill not find my reply too offensive and/or aggressive, but try to understand how it would feel if someone were to tell you that "we should just take the best bits from Linux and port them to OpenSolaris, then ditch Linux altogether as it's useless" and expect the Linux community to just nod and be happy about the move. This is essentially what your comment means to me.
                          This logic fails. You cannot possibly compare those two projects in size, length, distribution, acceptance... OpenSolaris is at best a marginal project that is only allowed to stay alive because of a few 'advantages' it has over Linux. But this will soon be history with btrfs etc., I don't think OpenSolaris has a real future.

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                          • #14
                            btrfs =/= zfs

                            trying to compare the 2 is like trying to compare apples and oranges; talk to the people who've looked at the difference and you'll see that they're not alike. Some guys have got ZFS working for Linux, with minimal code changes, maybe if you could get over the fact it's not GPL you could have it on your OS. (Tell me, which flash player do you use?)

                            What on earth makes you think Solaris is a "Marginal Project" ... maybe you think it's down to the amount of effort (man hours) it's had put into it, maybe it's the lack of money, maybe it's the fact that it's a new project, only started last year ...

                            Oh, no ... I forgot.

                            Has anyone bothered to read Wikipedia to find out how long this has been around?

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(operating_system) note the link to SunOS ...

                            Linux will never be Solaris, Solaris will never be Linux.

                            For my money I prefer to use a more solid OS that has a worse Graphical interface, but then I use it for work.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jadrevenge View Post
                              btrfs =/= zfs

                              trying to compare the 2 is like trying to compare apples and oranges; talk to the people who've looked at the difference and you'll see that they're not alike. Some guys have got ZFS working for Linux, with minimal code changes, maybe if you could get over the fact it's not GPL you could have it on your OS. (Tell me, which flash player do you use?)

                              What on earth makes you think Solaris is a "Marginal Project" ... maybe you think it's down to the amount of effort (man hours) it's had put into it, maybe it's the lack of money, maybe it's the fact that it's a new project, only started last year ...

                              Oh, no ... I forgot.

                              Has anyone bothered to read Wikipedia to find out how long this has been around?
                              .
                              You do understand ZFS isn't under the MIT or GPL precisely because Sun didn't want it in the Linux kernel. They were asked about dual-licenseing it a few times and refused as they know it would destroy a huge chunk of Solaris userbase.

                              Closed source UNIX OSes are a dying breed, and "Open"Solaris is still firmly embedded in closed source ideals, try getting commit access or a patch accepted into the Solaris kernel. They even ship binary drivers for stuff that is open in other BSD kernels (Toshiba ACPI).

                              Dave.

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