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  • #31
    Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    ... Gold has lower electrical resistance compared to more common substances used for plating, and aside from that most "HiFi" cables are thicker, allowing more more throughput. There's definitely a difference between those and the shitty $5 2cm-wide wires you'll get at a dollar store. It's not going to magically make your system sound better, but it's going to _help_ a very expensive system sound as good as it should.

    Unrelated: "virus-protected HDMI cables"? Holy hell, what is the world coming to. I want to kill anybody who falls for that.
    Gold plated cables will help as much as those virus-preotected HDMI cables. i.e. not at all. And yes those cheap 5 dollars HDMI cables will work as good as 200 dollar ones.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
      When it gets back to the pure analogue, then it changes up somewhat.
      Not to any degree humans can perceive. As long as there is proper shielding to prevent interference (which pretty much any $3 cable will have), and there is nothing weird causing cross-talk between parts of the cable or other feedback (which again is the case with pretty much any $3 cable), fancy cables aren't going to help noticeably over practical distances, and gold contacts aren't going to help at all. Heck, simple lead solder works just fine for microvolt signals, so signals on the order of 1/100000 the amplitude typical audio signal voltage.

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      • #33
        Ugh.. this again
        Gold plating prevents corrosion which would create resitor and capacitor circuitry which degrades signal and create noise, this is important specially in some environment which promotes corrosion and you need precision.
        You want to prevent this in analogue as its always affected by this, question is whats the level at which its disruptive.
        For digital transmission it is only useful if you have long distances, you have to be able to tell what is 0, 1 and sometimes silence(noise).

        Its common misconception that digital signal have only 1s and 0s, there`s also silence (or you have to use other method to indicate when you are not transmitting) and gray zone between 1 and 0 state.
        You dont want to degrade to grey or process noise as signal.

        So its always nice to have and in some cases must have but dont overpay too much for it as there is high chance that its not needed.

        For analogue I would go for gold plated, also the card and cables will be useful for a long time.
        Digital I dont care but if the price difference is small then i would consider it.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by pixo View Post
          Ugh.. this again
          Gold plating prevents corrosion
          Yeah it does for all of the 5 days it takes for the gold to rub off or get electrolyzed out...

          Its common misconception that digital signal have only 1s and 0s, there`s also silence
          Nope, a digital signal can have any number of states, as long as the total number of possible states is known and the states are all discrete values.

          Digital is not the same thing as binary.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by dee. View Post
            Yeah it does for all of the 5 days it takes for the gold to rub off or get electrolyzed out...



            Nope, a digital signal can have any number of states, as long as the total number of possible states is known and the states are all discrete values.

            Digital is not the same thing as binary.
            Curiously, when you signal along a digital cable, what else is being transmitted besides binary? Genuine question here. As far as I cared to know, you simply encapsulated the digital signal (binary in my interpretation) inside an analogue waveform, and so long as that waveform could maintain a certain level of *fancywordIforget*, digital signalling was happy to be carried along inside it without a worry. And that digital signalling was pretty much just binary. Fibre, wired, wireless, whatever, but that's my oversimplified understanding.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
              Not to any degree humans can perceive. As long as there is proper shielding to prevent interference (which pretty much any $3 cable will have), and there is nothing weird causing cross-talk between parts of the cable or other feedback (which again is the case with pretty much any $3 cable), fancy cables aren't going to help noticeably over practical distances, and gold contacts aren't going to help at all. Heck, simple lead solder works just fine for microvolt signals, so signals on the order of 1/100000 the amplitude typical audio signal voltage.
              So what you're saying is there's still a chance (sorry, Dumb and Dumber style quote =)

              What I never bothered to learn is what is construed as valid interference when and where analogue audio is concerned, and just how far shielding works. Plus a bunch of other questions, but they can wait =D For so long I've been told 'this' and 'that' and the cabling can easily receive crosstalk. But from what sources? Frequency, power output, sonic input, EMF, radio (wifi, mobile, satellite, sun). I was taught not to run network cabling parallel to power. Important if you plan on integrating all your wiring behind your gyprock (errr, plasterboard).

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              • #37
                Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
                Curiously, when you signal along a digital cable, what else is being transmitted besides binary? Genuine question here. As far as I cared to know, you simply encapsulated the digital signal (binary in my interpretation) inside an analogue waveform, and so long as that waveform could maintain a certain level of *fancywordIforget*, digital signalling was happy to be carried along inside it without a worry. And that digital signalling was pretty much just binary. Fibre, wired, wireless, whatever, but that's my oversimplified understanding.
                Digital data is not necessarily binary-encoded on the link -- it's common to combine multiple bits of digital data into a single "change" -- typically 2 or 4 bits (implying the need for multiple levels / frequencies / phases / whatever on the link) but sometimes there's no direct relationship :

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLT-3_encoding

                Pretty much every new link technology starts with binary encoding but quickly moves to much more complex encoding in order to get higher data rates across the same basic link.

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                • #38
                  k so

                  -gold plating is good if you live near a swamp as sulphor eats copper and probably aluminum
                  well it's not like aluminum reacts very violently with oxygen, for a minute of though
                  not that it matters much as for example 1A you need 1/10mm^2 of contact (too support full current constantly that is, so even less) and you get that and more when plugging it in (scrapes the oxide, np)
                  (1A for ~8W speaker, digital things need waaaaaay less current)

                  -digital things have got Schmitt triggers at input to clean it
                  -cables are usually in twisted pairs that practically eliminates interference

                  take cat5 eth for example, that i ran at 50m np (cat6 is still better, but not because it is thicker but because it is... how you call it lots of little wires)

                  i had a problem with 5m vga, but that was just a very shitty cable
                  hdmi, dvi and the likes should not have problems


                  audio is but a bit different
                  still there is no difference between cables, as long they are thick enough to not overheat

                  funny enough that if you use a long, thick cable for a tweeter it's capacitance can cause problems for the amp

                  @ Daktyl198
                  Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook, by Douglas Self
                  i won't say that you can find a pdf online, 5'th edition

                  also sound-westhost, lots of good articles
                  Last edited by gens; 06-04-2014, 10:05 AM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dee. View Post
                    Yeah it does for all of the 5 days it takes for the gold to rub off or get electrolyzed out...



                    Nope, a digital signal can have any number of states, as long as the total number of possible states is known and the states are all discrete values.

                    Digital is not the same thing as binary.
                    Yes I know that you dont use only 2 states but i went with the simple explanation.
                    And as the number of states increases you also need better quality of the whole channel as noise, crosstalk and interference becomes bigger problem.
                    As for the longevity i cant comment as i dont know much about how long the coating take to get electrolyzed out or what are the requirements for it to happen.
                    Rubbing it out depends how often you are reconnecting and how thick is the gold layer.

                    But yes buying something overpriced just because its contacts are gold coated is stupid, specially if the cables are 2x in price.
                    For analogue i would still prefer gold plated, if its the price difference is small, as in 5 years i dont want to think that my setup is starting to die when all i need to do is polish the connectors.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by gens View Post
                      @ Daktyl198
                      Audio Power Amplifier Design Handbook, by Douglas Self
                      i won't say that you can find a pdf online, 5'th edition

                      also sound-westhost, lots of good articles
                      Thank you very much, I'll get on that immediately

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Just posting some stuff for the sake of keeping the flame going.

                        There is plenty of evidence/paper/tests that show that the human brain can detect frequencies higher than 60hz. While the improvement is much smaller when you go to from 60hz to 120hz than when you go from 30hz to 60hz, it's still there.
                        Some good reads:
                        http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=333
                        http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abras...fixing-judder/

                        A big example of where you need more than 60hz is the Oculus Rift (as told in the second link), since the screen doesn't update fast enough when you move your head. Obviously the effect is much smaller with a desktop monitor, as you aren't moving your head and expect the screen to keep on.
                        Another thing to be told is that usually a much bigger improvement over more hz is strobing (nvidia call their implementation lightboost) since it reduced image redention/ghosting by a lot.

                        --
                        As for the music quality, flac and similar are placebo*. That's pretty much it.
                        A nice article on music quality is here: https://web.archive.org/web/20140524...eil-young.html (it's more about a bigger sampling frequency than bitrate, but still worth a read).
                        Also http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Transparency

                        Why the *? Because usually people download .flac files from a source that used a better master/mixing that the one found in "recent" cds. Also, tons of .mp3 and similar one could download from the internet are very badly encoded and taken from "dubious" sources.
                        There's also the problem with encoders, many sucks.

                        If you want to see it by yourself, get a .flac of your favorite song, convert it to .mp3 v0 with lame, and then use a double-blind testing program to see if you can manage to find the .flac file without cheating.

                        --
                        My two cents, enjoy.

                        Oh, by the way, I like that finally Tizen is getting shipped. Maybe between the recent improvements on iOS 8, Samsung shipping Tizen, Windows Phone getting better and Jolla/Firefox OS Google will finally move forward with Android. I feel that we've been getting only small/minor updates lately (and for lately I mean the latest 2/3 major releases).

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                          Completely possible. At this point, it's probably worth noting that almost everything I've learned about audio systems (including the wiring) came from a very unreliable source (he's in jail currently), but it's the only stuff I ever learned so I still assume it as true. Nobody has ever corrected me before either, affirming the "it's true" thought in my mind.

                          Do feel free to correct me in a way that isn't condescending so that I may reflect on my past mistakes.
                          You know, it's completely fine to talk about something that you aren't certain about, but it is substantially less cool to do so when you don't say you aren't certain. If you aren't sure, please include that in your posts for the sanity of the internet and Saint Al.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
                            Curiously, when you signal along a digital cable, what else is being transmitted besides binary?
                            Depends on the signal. A digital signal can have any number of states.

                            Or, more precisely, any signal that has n discrete states, where n is a known value, is considered to be a digital signal. In contrast to analog signals, where the value is continuous.

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                            • #44
                              So back to the topic of Tizen
                              Anyone got info how will it be updated?
                              Will it be like linux versioning/rolling distros or a whole firmware as iOS and Android?
                              If you cold update at least userspace like on normal distros i will want one.
                              I hate when manufacturer decides to drop support and you are left with old version even when the HW is still good enough for your need.

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                              • #45
                                (btw, re: RAM more is merrier - more RAM also means more power draw. So there are limits to what's appropriate in a small mobile device.)

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