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  • #16
    Originally posted by dee. View Post
    Yeah... sure, just like you can CLEARLY hear the difference in sound with these authentic, patented, gold-plated HiFi sound cables...
    Different strokes different folks. I notice 120 vs 60 like night and day, and I also really notice my eDP laptops variable refresh vs static refresh rates.

    But in music? I have tried it with multiple tracks, including some crazy high BPM screamo and electronic alternate music that is supposed to have huge range and make reduced bit rates apparent, but I still have my entire collection in 128kbps Opus, and even that feels like overkill to me - the only bitrate threshold I hear a difference in is between 64 and 92 kbps. I really don't notice 92 vs 128, but I keep it up just in case because space is cheap.

    I have a "source" collection of tracks in flac / 320kbps mp3, and its 85GB big. My Opus collection at 128kbps, that I put on all my devices, is 20 gig. And I honestly never can tell the difference.

    But there are audiophiles who will swear they notice it. The same way I'll swear to you I know the difference between 60 and 120hz, the same way I notice 200 PPI vs 300 PPI at 12" view distance (for all our Euros, that is 30cm). So I won't debunk them because I don't have their ears, and as long as they have done enough evaluations to be confident about it in some partially scientific way (ie, they don't just say "BIGGER NUMBER BETTER MUST GET", then I'll take their word. It doesn't hurt you if others are pushing the upper bounds of human perception for you in this tech, because the benefits trickle down to even the mid range gear.

    I do really like good speakers, though. Headphones drive me nuts because of no mass. I like a nice subwofer, nothing Earth shaking, but even at 10% volume I can feel the vibrations and they make a huge difference. But then I don't notice anything - so my $250 surround sound set I gave to my Dad, because I really like my $50 2.1 speaker set.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
      You can if you have the proper equipment/software to go with it. The human ear is very adapt at noticing changes in sound,
      Ok, NO. There's a huge market in selling bullshit to "audiophiles" (read: gullible fools) with no scientific or any other kind of evidence backing up any validity behind them. Special speaker wires aren't going to make your sound system sound any better, there's no magic involved in audio systems.

      But hey, feel free to waste your money in "magic speaker wires" and "virus-protected HDMI cables" (yes, those are a thing... I've lost all faith in humanity)...

      so just because you got used to shitty 96kbps mp3s and can't hear "better quality", doesn't mean everybody has
      Well, that's a nice way of making claims about a totally unrelated issue which I've never commented on. Lossy compression is a completely different issue, with a completely dífferent set of problems.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
        That said, there's obviously going to be a limit to the amount of information your eye can stream at one time, so maybe between 60 and 80fps (on a 120hz monitor) there is some little noticeable difference, but above 80 there's most likely nothing. That isn't to say that your brain doesn't know the difference between 80 and 100fps, it's just it doesn't see much difference in it.
        I just tried switching between 100 and 120 hz and the difference is still noticeable when moving windows for instance

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        • #19
          Originally posted by zanny View Post
          I have a "source" collection of tracks in flac / 320kbps mp3, and its 85GB big. My Opus collection at 128kbps, that I put on all my devices, is 20 gig. And I honestly never can tell the difference.
          With 320kbps vbr you probably won't hear much if any difference. Any lower from that though, especially with cbr, it becomes quite easy to tell if you know what to listen for. Problems with lossy compression become most apparent with high-end noisy sounds (hats, cymbals, high-pitched snares) which easily get noticeable distortion in lossy compression. It's a very easy to spot, zipper-like sound, kind of like a slight out-of-phase sound. Part of this is probably because of the inherent difficulties in compressing noise...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by doom_Oo7 View Post
            I just tried switching between 100 and 120 hz and the difference is still noticeable when moving windows for instance
            Probably because you want to see a difference there. It'd be pretty shitty if you pay extra for a 120hz monitor and can't notice a difference, so you tell yourself "of course I can see a difference"...

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-pu...ationalization

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dee. View Post
              Ok, NO. There's a huge market in selling bullshit to "audiophiles" (read: gullible fools) with no scientific or any other kind of evidence backing up any validity behind them. Special speaker wires aren't going to make your sound system sound any better, there's no magic involved in audio systems.

              But hey, feel free to waste your money in "magic speaker wires" and "virus-protected HDMI cables" (yes, those are a thing... I've lost all faith in humanity)...
              ... Gold has lower electrical resistance compared to more common substances used for plating, and aside from that most "HiFi" cables are thicker, allowing more more throughput. There's definitely a difference between those and the shitty $5 2cm-wide wires you'll get at a dollar store. It's not going to magically make your system sound better, but it's going to _help_ a very expensive system sound as good as it should.

              Unrelated: "virus-protected HDMI cables"? Holy hell, what is the world coming to. I want to kill anybody who falls for that.

              Originally posted by dee. View Post
              Well, that's a nice way of making claims about a totally unrelated issue which I've never commented on. Lossy compression is a completely different issue, with a completely dífferent set of problems.
              I meant "just because you can't tell the difference between low and high-quality audio after a certain level doesn't mean others can't". Worded it the wrong way, yeah.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by dee. View Post
                Probably because you want to see a difference there. It'd be pretty shitty if you pay extra for a 120hz monitor and can't notice a difference, so you tell yourself "of course I can see a difference"...

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-pu...ationalization
                If you lived in France I would happily prove you that there is no bias by inviting you to come over and check with your own eyes.

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                • #23
                  So. Tizen.

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                  • #24
                    Might I just add, audio, and video signalling, when sent digitally, can be sent over a piece of rolled aluminium foil. It just wont let you do it very well, or for any distance. Gold is only going to allow you to improve the length of the cable and considering you dont make wire from gold....well gold plating is kind of moot.

                    Slighlty exaggerrated, but you know. I'm allowed.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                      Unrelated: "virus-protected HDMI cables"? Holy hell, what is the world coming to. I want to kill anybody who falls for that.
                      Guessing you don't do a lot of shopping here ?

                      http://www.machinadynamica.com/

                      re: impact of display refresh rates, when you're doing comparisons make sure you don't have any AC-powered light sources in the test area. The brain interprets beat frequencies between display refresh and power line frequency in funny ways.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                        ... Gold has lower electrical resistance compared to more common substances used for plating, and aside from that most "HiFi" cables are thicker, allowing more more throughput. There's definitely a difference between those and the shitty $5 2cm-wide wires you'll get at a dollar store. It's not going to magically make your system sound better, but it's going to _help_ a very expensive system sound as good as it should.
                        All evidence says the exact opposite. People can't even tell the difference between high-end cables and clotheshangers. There is a reason that the audiophile community rejects double-blind testing: it doesn't give them the answers they want. There is also a reason why scientists studying the auditory system connect their $100,000, ultra-precise, 200kHz equipment using run-of-the-mill, sometimes even home-made, BNC cables: because they work just as well.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
                          ... Gold has lower electrical resistance compared to more common substances used for plating, and aside from that most "HiFi" cables are thicker, allowing more more throughput. There's definitely a difference between those and the shitty $5 2cm-wide wires you'll get at a dollar store. It's not going to magically make your system sound better, but it's going to _help_ a very expensive system sound as good as it should.
                          Everything you just said was complete bullshit.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by stiiixy View Post
                            Might I just add, audio, and video signalling, when sent digitally, can be sent over a piece of rolled aluminium foil. It just wont let you do it very well, or for any distance. Gold is only going to allow you to improve the length of the cable and considering you dont make wire from gold....well gold plating is kind of moot.

                            Slighlty exaggerrated, but you know. I'm allowed.
                            I think the reasoning for gold contacts is that it is the only part of the cable with direct oxygen contact and you want to reduce the oxidation by using a less reactive material (e.g. gold) to not loose your electrical conductivity by having a small layer of oxidized material on top. I'm not saying this is actually helping but a different reasoning. But you're still right with the digital signals, the cable and contacts don't matter too much.

                            For getting larger cable lengths gold won't actually help you as copper has a lower resistance than gold. Silver would be the material you want to have, but still..., to costly

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dee. View Post
                              Everything you just said was complete bullshit.
                              Completely possible. At this point, it's probably worth noting that almost everything I've learned about audio systems (including the wiring) came from a very unreliable source (he's in jail currently), but it's the only stuff I ever learned so I still assume it as true. Nobody has ever corrected me before either, affirming the "it's true" thought in my mind.

                              Do feel free to correct me in a way that isn't condescending so that I may reflect on my past mistakes.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by droste View Post
                                I think the reasoning for gold contacts is that it is the only part of the cable with direct oxygen contact and you want to reduce the oxidation by using a less reactive material (e.g. gold) to not loose your electrical conductivity by having a small layer of oxidized material on top. I'm not saying this is actually helping but a different reasoning. But you're still right with the digital signals, the cable and contacts don't matter too much.

                                For getting larger cable lengths gold won't actually help you as copper has a lower resistance than gold. Silver would be the material you want to have, but still..., to costly
                                That'd be about right I think. I knew there was a reasoning behind the gold and I didn't have it. I dont think silver would work well though, because it tarnishes in the air? Speculating here. And things like bronze aren't flexible despite being good for such things. I guess that's why we have plastic and audio cables come coated in it, and have braided coverings. Better ones have braided coverings and quality wiring.

                                I'm certainly no audio pro. I just know that a digital signal doesn't care what medium it's carried on, and that said medium only affects the distance and signal rate (and the expectant amount of data you can pump through that material, and packet droppingl). When it gets back to the pure analogue, then it changes up somewhat.
                                Last edited by stiiixy; 06-04-2014, 02:15 AM.

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