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Sailfish SDK Update Switches From X11 To Wayland

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Chaz View Post
    I don't know what the hell this phone can do (that a dozen other phones don't do) that is more important to you than comfort. Maybe you could explain it to me with your superb problem solving skills.
    He's implying you should buy a phone too big to fit in a pocket, and then add a third-party casing around it with round corners making it even bigger

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    • #32
      Originally posted by KellyClowers View Post
      The toolkit level is absolutely the wrong place for network support. Why would you even think that? What if you want/need to use some ancient Motif app or something? And why should Qt, GTK, etc all have to reinvent the wheel? Maybe not having network transparency built into Wayland is a good idea, maybe not, but either way, the toolkit is the wrong place for remote support!
      Well, you have remote display and remote rendering.
      If you are happy with remote display, meaning that the already rendered main framebuffer or apps buffers are compressed (as "video") and sent to be displayed remotely, then that can easily be done at the compositor level (this is the current weston network support).
      If you need remote rendering (because you want to send text instead of rendered text through the network), toolkit level is the only acceptable place for this kind of support, because the toolkit is the one that performs the rendering.
      X does remote rendering by actually being a super toolkit, and forcing everything to render through it. This obviously is a bad idea, so they've implemented ways to bypass this aspect of X, that in turn break network rendering of X. There's no free lunch.

      If you want to use some ancient motif app, use remote display. If you want better performance at the cost of more complicated software, use a toolkit that implements some network rendering.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        Uhh, actually NK declared they were in a state of war with SK just a few months ago. And they've done things like shelling across the border, and sinking South Korean Navy ships, so i find your position curious.
        The announcement was so far empty posturing in response to trade sanctions; for the ships, we don't know if it actually happened or if SK merely said it did. NK confirmation of the ships should be considered worthless, as they would claim anything if it made them look big, like causing some big earthquake.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by erendorn View Post
          It's perfectly fine to have a set of hard requirements for about anything.
          It only becomes silly if there is no option that fulfill all hard requirements.
          Not really if you're talking about just 1x hard requirement & nothing else, esp. when it's something as subjective & "learned" as comfort.
          If it was something far more central to the utility/flexibility of the device, maybe, but even then it's still (somewhat) silly.
          There's way more than 1x consideration when choosing a device, even if you already own a large suite of form-factors & sw_env/platforms.
          It's possible to have 1x consideration that's a "deal breaker", but discomfort from "spiky corners" is way down the bottom of that list.
          There'd be something else that's a "deal breaker" long before you get to it, else you're just not doing it right or something is colouring your perception.
          Last edited by jalyst; 08-03-2013, 08:14 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mark45 View Post
            It's funny how you make pathetic excuses for any single point I make, even for the ten fold heroin production increase in Afghanistan - if it happened during the Soviet invasion it would be interpreted "because the Soviets are tyrants and drug smugglers" but since it happens during USA's invasion it's OK because heroin production creates jobs, it's also funny how if anyone uses any force the USA is the 1st country to accuse of "excessive brutality" but when the USA bombs the shit out of Japan with atom bombs or parches people with napalm it's "to save lives", I keep rereading your answer and wow, how pathetically defensive and hypocrite you are just like the USA foreign policy (except the defensive part), even glossing over the heroin and AL-quaeda like it's no big deal.
            Now to address the geopolitics issue - when I say something about the USA or China I don't mean the people since the masses are never well informed and critically thinking so most of them follow whatever they're indoctrinated with, if they're told cavemen from Afghanistan are a threat to the USA they're like "alright, whatever it takes". The biggest mass killer in the world is the USA for now ("USA" not to be confused with the USA people, 90% of them don't even know where is Afghanistan, again, as stupid as the masses in other countries), when/if some other country becomes the strongest one - it will start being the biggest bully and biggest hypocrite and most of its people won't know that either, that's the law of geopolitics - the government forming the opinion and social consent is a critical task to be able wage such a foreign policy, which means when/if China becomes No1 in the world its masses will be indoctrinated with excuses of why it's ok to invade other countries etc.
            This getting beyond a joke, reported your ass, looking forward to this crud being removed (inc. this post & any sparing partners posts).
            That way the "dick waving" about who has the best political mind (in a thread that's about smartphone tech) can stop.

            Originally posted by jalyst View Post
            There'd be something else that's a "deal breaker" long before you get to it
            Or more likely, a combination of things...
            Last edited by jalyst; 08-03-2013, 08:17 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by mark45 View Post
              It's funny how you make pathetic excuses for any single point I make
              Ha, thanks, that's exactly the type of response i figured i'd get from you.

              It's funny, because i wasn't giving excuses at all, but rather trying to have a rational discussion about some of the surrounding circumstances and providing context.

              For example, i never said it was good that the Afghan drug trade has exploded. I just tried to explain why it happened, something you obviously aren't interested in when you can just blame your personal bogeyman.

              I find it sad that most people in the world subscribe to George Bush's old, "you're either with us or against us" mentality. Virtually no one in the world is actually pure "good" or "evil". Everyone just tries to do what they think is in their best interests, and is the hero of their own story.

              As such, i find it much more useful to try and discover why certain things are happening, and what both sides hope to gain from it, whenever discussing matters like these, rather than just devolving into demagoguery.
              Last edited by smitty3268; 08-03-2013, 03:12 PM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by curaga View Post
                The announcement was so far empty posturing in response to trade sanctions; for the ships, we don't know if it actually happened or if SK merely said it did. NK confirmation of the ships should be considered worthless, as they would claim anything if it made them look big, like causing some big earthquake.
                This announcement damaged them indirectly you can bet that at least SK stock market was negatively hit by this "empty" posturing. So you say sinking of ROKS Cheonan was false flag operation by SK?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by curaga View Post
                  The announcement was so far empty posturing in response to trade sanctions; for the ships, we don't know if it actually happened or if SK merely said it did. NK confirmation of the ships should be considered worthless, as they would claim anything if it made them look big, like causing some big earthquake.
                  NK actually denied sinking the ship, though there's been a long history (over decades) of both sides being quite aggressive with their navy and taking casualties.

                  I guess the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island in 2010 must have been imagined. (NK did claim credit for that)

                  It sounds like your point is that nothing NK says or does actually matters. Ok... We differ on that point.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
                    Are you sure they vote for it?
                    ....
                    I agree, however, that democracy has nothing to do with the way the nation behaves, since it's just the way they decide how to behave, not the decision itself.
                    Technically the US and all other "democratic" governments are actually republics - where people elect representatives for their vote. Democracy is just a short hand to describe that system, just like "communism" doesn't truly describe the governments in the Soviet Union or China, but is a useful shorthand approximation.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                      Ha, thanks, that's exactly the type of response i figured i'd get from you.

                      It's funny, because i wasn't giving excuses at all, but rather trying to have a rational discussion about some of the surrounding circumstances and providing context.

                      For example, i never said it was good that the Afghan drug trade has exploded. I just tried to explain why it happened, something you obviously aren't interested in when you can just blame your personal bogeyman.

                      I find it sad that most people in the world subscribe to George Bush's old, "you're either with us or against us" mentality. Virtually no one in the world is actually pure "good" or "evil". Everyone just tries to do what they think is in their best interests, and is the hero of their own story.

                      As such, i find it much more useful to try and discover why certain things are happening, and what both sides hope to gain from it, whenever discussing matters like these, rather than just devolving into demagoguery.
                      I'm telling you just how hopelessly hypocritical and defensive you are. Imagine China invaded Mexico, the heroin production skyrocketed and flooded the USA, and China refused to do anything serious about it because it "provides jobs to pour Mexicans" - isn't that the most hypocritical argument one can master? So don't tell me about how China has problems with human rights, because the USA's foreign policy is much worse, as I said - not because the USA people are bad (they're no better or worse than say Polish or other nations), but because it's the strongest country in the world. In the past it was the British Empire who created most chaos in the world, because it was the strongest country. Same thing will happen to China and the Chinese people because the masses never like dealing with info (atrocities) unless it's presented right in front of them, like the leaks of whistle-blowers or when it collapses and a new govt comes in, like in the case of Soviet Russia, Japan, Nazi Germany etc, until then the masses try to consider anything they don't like as "demagogy" and "conspiracy theories".
                      Last edited by mark45; 08-03-2013, 03:32 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by curaga View Post
                        He's implying you should buy a phone too big to fit in a pocket, and then add a third-party casing around it with round corners making it even bigger
                        You know, that's not a bad idea. If they can get the touch screen and the hardware KB (???) worked out maybe I'll get some giant pants.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                          Technically the US and all other "democratic" governments are actually republics - where people elect representatives for their vote. Democracy is just a short hand to describe that system, just like "communism" doesn't truly describe the governments in the Soviet Union or China, but is a useful shorthand approximation.
                          Of course, but that wasn't the point. The point is you vote someone you *think* you agree with, or the one you think you agree the most with. If there's a concern in which they'll vote that you aren't aware of, you have no way to make an educated guess about you agreeing or not with the candidate.

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                          • #43
                            At least China handset spyware won't turn you in to the FBI and the NSA

                            Originally posted by misGnomer View Post
                            What saddens me on the hardware side is that the Jolla group ended up in bed with Chinese partners, rather than folks from countries where freedom and openness are still somewhat respected. Well, they had options but chose to do it that way.
                            I would far more trust Chinese hardware that hardware made in any country allied with the US. This is because backdoors planted by Chinese intelligence are likely to be unavailable to US law enforcement and intelligence agencies. The sweatshops and prison labor are another story, or course-and if you are organizing Foxconn workers in China, you then need US hardware, figuring the NSA won't share any of their backdoors with China's MSS. Don't use Apple, they will help Foxconn and can access any backdoors they planted themselves.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Luke View Post
                              I would far more trust Chinese hardware that hardware made in any country allied with the US. This is because backdoors planted by Chinese intelligence are likely to be unavailable to US law enforcement and intelligence agencies. The sweatshops and prison labor are another story, or course-and if you are organizing Foxconn workers in China, you then need US hardware, figuring the NSA won't share any of their backdoors with China's MSS. Don't use Apple, they will help Foxconn and can access any backdoors they planted themselves.
                              This line of thinking is weird If HW or SW has backdoor when US or Chinese spies/hackers finds out about it. Youre compromised by both sides also US NSA or PLA Unit 61398 they know how to use reverse engineering if theres a backdoor they might discover it even if they dont have information about it.

                              Notion that Chinese backdoor is better than American is just stupid

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Very happy to see sailfish sdk get ahead of the game and go wayland. Mir by Canonical seems like a very wrong move to me.
                                I'm just waiting for the Jolla phone even though the HTC one body looks pretty good and I'm a little tempted by the good specs.

                                Sorry to take the bait and go a little off topic but I believe this is an issue that affects us all.
                                I also felt a little sad when Jolla set up in China. China is the #1 counterfeiter of the world. That is direct trade and job theft. I remember hearing an NPR radio show where some guys that used to work for the government said that China's technology theft from the US costs us 300 billion to 1 trillion per year. That does not even include the online gold farming and the tremendous loss from counterfeits not to mention that they are ruining our brands image of quality with their cheap knock offs.

                                If you analyze China's actions they are at trade war with the US and are using "the art of war" against us. They reinvest their ill gotten gains into more trade and technology theft and trade cheating. Communism and property rights kind of really don't go together.
                                Not only do they trade and job steal but they trade cheat on top of that. Everything from oversubsidizing their solar industry to putting huge tariffs on american imports (certain ones) to make them unavailable to their people.

                                China is an old country that has had a long time to get it right. We are a young country. We used to have a dictator too but we cancelled that and made a democratic republic. What did China do? It chose communism, something that doesn't work and never has. So what they have decided to do instead of change their form of government is steal US technology and trade and hold up the gains from that as an example of how awesome their communsim is.

                                As one of its victims of trade cheating (I used to work for a solar manufacturer until China flooded our country with cheap solar panels and we had to close down) I can tell you I was very fond of China until I lost my job and took a look at China's trade practices. After lots of reading online my conclusion is they are in denial that communism doesn't work so they are stealing US wealth to prop up their failure choice of government and make it appear to work. We are stuck in a downward spiral because of their taking our manufacturing jobs.
                                More workers looking for jobs equals lower wages making us more dependent on cheap Chinese goods. We cannot all have service jobs it just wont work. With no manufacturing occuring here it will be an easy task in the future to drop the dollar as the worlds reserve currency as we will be seen as a country with no value. So that is also one of China's goals and that will devastate us. Devastate.

                                When you get your jolla phone, what will the quality be? Will any of those components be made by a factory that is/was also a counterfeiter? Counterfeits of some brand that comes from your country? By buying the phone will you be giving a thumbs up to Chinese counterfeiting/trade theft? We don't know. Will they put a back door in the phone so they can turn on the microphone while you are in a business meeting?
                                Overall the country is morally bankrupt when it comes to property rights so just keep that in mind.
                                Last edited by aironeous; 08-04-2013, 07:12 AM.

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