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Sailfish SDK Update Switches From X11 To Wayland

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  • #16
    Finland - ice cool!

    anyone else noticed that the coolest things are made in Finland? i.e. Linus/Linux... Jolla...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
      not yet, even so threis experimental support for RDP and realVNC is interested in a wayland port but is X through ssh there is no equivalent yet.

      but don't worry most DE will work with wayland and X11, so stay in the XCB backend until wayland for network is defined[i think is better outside wayland personally and i think it should be provided for the toolkit which is the appropiated level]
      The toolkit level is absolutely the wrong place for network support. Why would you even think that? What if you want/need to use some ancient Motif app or something? And why should Qt, GTK, etc all have to reinvent the wheel? Maybe not having network transparency built into Wayland is a good idea, maybe not, but either way, the toolkit is the wrong place for remote support!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Chaz View Post
        Their phone has hard corners like the Lumia. Hard corners are uncomfortable hold. They might as well throw their phones straight into the trash as far as I'm concerned.

        But thanks for putting Linux on phones I guess. Maybe someone can port it over to a decent phone from another manufacturer.
        "hard corners"? that is your main/only complaint? Man, if that was my only issue with it, I'd be laughing! Software issues aside, the whole "hardware KB" and "capacitive touch screen" issues are a lot more fundamental than details about how they round their corners or whatever.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by misGnomer View Post
          Sigh.

          Sorry if I brought this on.

          I'm from Northern Europe, rather well educated and all too well aware about the past and current shortcomings (OK, an understatement there) of the militaristic, religious and rightwing USA, but after decades worth of deep involvement with the "People's Republic of China" and their quest for Lebenraum, several wars and ongoing border military incursions and centrally controlled internal, yes, oppression, I'm sorry to say that your rose-tinted view of the PRC is, well, severely lacking.

          Not that I personally blame you since it was first Nixon and then Clinton who, thanks to Kissinger's new plan for world order and big western investors/shareholders, "rehabilitated" the PRC and made it part of Apple's etc. supply line.

          It takes some time and effort, but you can still read about the PRC's real history since the party took over in 1949. Of course there are no more manchus left and "south-mongolians" are a dying breed, but some Tibetans and Uighurs are still trying to hang on to their ancestral lands, languages, customs and religions against all odds, and yes, genocidal oppression.

          Now, the party handbook (it was... leaked decades ago!) has taught paid and unpaid regime loyalist to bring up native americans (and aboriginees etc.) to try and kill every english-language debate in public forums, and theoretically they have a point (all violent colonialism really is wrong!) , but they're only trying to deflect the fact that the PRC is still very actively and violently pursuing their "racially supremacist" long-term Lebensraum policy. And our western (and the rest) goverments are quietly giving them winks and nods due to corporate/commercial, um, convenience.

          But apologies again for taking the bait. Maybe my (geek) friends are more conscientious than average (albeit not "left-wing" for chrissakes), but despite all of USA's screwupness (just Manning and Snowden for example, and our american friends really should stand up there for everyone's sake!) even the USA has nothing on China when it comes to sheer scale of brutality, indoctrination and large-scale genocide that keeps happening on there, even against many of their own "han" people.

          But keep on learning China's communist party -formalized "mandarin" and its simplified script and maybe you too will some day have great business opportunities under their benevolent future mandate. Or whatever will float your very own boat.
          Nor can you blame me since I'm neither from the USA nor China. But since you brought up the rosy view of history and militarism: how about the America's overwhelming militarism in the world, how about it killing most people in the world, how about it waging most wars in the world? How about Clinton acknowledging creating/funding Al-Qaeda? When the USA creates a terrorist group it's ok? And speaking of history - slavery and racism is the history of the USA, and of course genocide - it killed all the indians and those who survived are put in concentration camps - reservations. How about Britain waging war with China to sell drugs "the opium wars"? How come since the USA invaded Afghanistan heroin production skyrocketed to 90% of world's supply? How about being friends with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (big USA military base) where it's ok to stone someone to death or cut the head off with the sword? The USA is also the only country who parched hundreds of thousands of people (Japan) with atom bombs, and even more people, this time with napalm, in Vietnam.
          You certainly have little to no knowledge about geopolitics since you think in terms of "the good guys and the bad guys".
          Last edited by mark45; 08-02-2013, 06:26 PM.

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          • #20
            OT

            Boy, I can just see this thread is going all kinds of good places :-/

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            • #21
              You certainly have little to no knowledge about geopolitics since you think in terms of "the good guys and the bad guys".
              That's funny, because i was thinking the exact same thing about you just now. I mean, since basically everything you said was an attack against a single target, it's pretty obvious you think there are some bad guys and you know who they are.

              Nobody's perfect, and everyone has made mistakes. Particularly if you go back just 50 years, you can drag anybody's name into the mud.

              Originally posted by mark45 View Post
              how about it killing most people in the world, how about it waging most wars in the world?
              Global death from wars is the lowest is ever been in recorded history. So apparently it's not as bad as you think.

              How about Clinton acknowledging creating/funding Al-Qaeda? When the USA creates a terrorist group it's ok?
              Err, where in the world did you ever get that idea? I'm pretty sure the people who did that would acknowledge it was one of the worst things they ever did. Anyway, like they say - one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. It's all relative.

              And speaking of history - slavery and racism is the history of the USA, and of course genocide - it killed all the indians and those who survived are put in concentration camps - reservations. How about Britain waging war with China to sell drugs "the opium wars"?
              How come people always respond to criticism of something they like with criticism of things that happened way before they were even born?

              How come since the USA invaded Afghanistan heroin production skyrocketed to 90% of world's supply?
              Probably because fewer farmers were getting their heads cut off by the Taliban, and poppy is the most lucrative thing they can grow. Wait, i thought the US was supposed to be the bad guys in Afghanistan, that can't be right. Ok, maybe it's because the US secretly decided to start selling drugs there to addict everyone in the middle east. That makes sense, right?

              How about being friends with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait (big USA military base) where it's ok to stone someone to death or cut the head off with the sword?
              Do you really believe China isn't close to any places like that? They're huge in Africa, like the US is in the middle east. For the same reasons, too - it's all about natural resources.

              The USA is also the only country who parched hundreds of thousands of people (Japan) with atom bombs
              That's a complicated subject, but it's always argued that the atom bombs ended up saving lives, because the alternative would have been a full scale land invasion where millions of Japanese would have suffered and died. Instead, the bombs made it clear immediately how hopeless things were and led to a quicker surrender. But obviously, any kind of mass death like that isn't something that people approve of these days. Back then, though, bombing civilians was pretty much acceptable behaviour. Everyone did it in WW2, from Britain, France, to Germany, Japan, and everyone else who had planes and bombs.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by curaga View Post
                Indeed. To highlight another big baddy, NK isn't at war with anyone, they're not spying on us, and the last I heard from them, it was a video showing american brainwashing techniques.
                Uhh, actually NK declared they were in a state of war with SK just a few months ago. And they've done things like shelling across the border, and sinking South Korean Navy ships, so i find your position curious.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by KellyClowers View Post
                  What if you want/need to use some ancient Motif app or something?
                  This is thanks to this kind of mentality that we were stuck with X for so long. If you need to run a motif app, just install debian sarge on a virtual machine... But *nobody* needs to run a motif app on his phone. Well, as much as they would need to run it on their watch, or their car internal os.

                  Originally posted by KellyClowers View Post
                  And why should Qt, GTK, etc all have to reinvent the wheel? Maybe not having network transparency built into Wayland is a good idea, maybe not, but either way, the toolkit is the wrong place for remote support!
                  You clearly must be a big fan of
                  Code:
                  #ifdef WIN32
                  ...windows socket code
                  #endif
                  #ifdef LINUX
                  ...linux socket code
                  #endif
                  but I am personnally not and very happy to work with a framework like Qt that abstracts everything for every platform.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KellyClowers View Post
                    "hard corners"? that is your main/only complaint? Man, if that was my only issue with it, I'd be laughing! Software issues aside, the whole "hardware KB" and "capacitive touch screen" issues are a lot more fundamental than details about how they round their corners or whatever.
                    Yep. I don't have any idea what you're talking about with the touch screen problems or whatever a hardware KB is. It doesn't matter, because I already know I'd never consider the phone due to the hard corners.

                    It's like someone baked an elaborate cake, and then spilled motor oil on it. At that point, do you care if the cake had to much baking powder?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Chaz View Post
                      It doesn't matter, because I already know I'd never consider the phone due to the hard corners.
                      It's like someone baked an elaborate cake, and then spilled motor oil on it. At that point, do you care if the cake had to much baking powder?
                      It's pretty silly actually, there's a multitude of other considerations, many which are far more important.
                      To totally lose interest because of only that 1 factor, indicates some sort of bias, or just limited problem solving skills.
                      Last edited by jalyst; 08-03-2013, 02:34 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MartinN View Post
                        anyone else noticed that the coolest things are made in Finland? i.e. Linus/Linux... Jolla...
                        That's not even half of it, we also invented IRC and SSH.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                          That's funny, because i was thinking the exact same thing about you just now. I mean, since basically everything you said was an attack against a single target, it's pretty obvious you think there are some bad guys and you know who they are.

                          Nobody's perfect, and everyone has made mistakes. Particularly if you go back just 50 years, you can drag anybody's name into the mud.


                          Global death from wars is the lowest is ever been in recorded history. So apparently it's not as bad as you think.


                          Err, where in the world did you ever get that idea? I'm pretty sure the people who did that would acknowledge it was one of the worst things they ever did. Anyway, like they say - one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. It's all relative.


                          How come people always respond to criticism of something they like with criticism of things that happened way before they were even born?


                          Probably because fewer farmers were getting their heads cut off by the Taliban, and poppy is the most lucrative thing they can grow. Wait, i thought the US was supposed to be the bad guys in Afghanistan, that can't be right. Ok, maybe it's because the US secretly decided to start selling drugs there to addict everyone in the middle east. That makes sense, right?


                          Do you really believe China isn't close to any places like that? They're huge in Africa, like the US is in the middle east. For the same reasons, too - it's all about natural resources.


                          That's a complicated subject, but it's always argued that the atom bombs ended up saving lives, because the alternative would have been a full scale land invasion where millions of Japanese would have suffered and died. Instead, the bombs made it clear immediately how hopeless things were and led to a quicker surrender. But obviously, any kind of mass death like that isn't something that people approve of these days. Back then, though, bombing civilians was pretty much acceptable behaviour. Everyone did it in WW2, from Britain, France, to Germany, Japan, and everyone else who had planes and bombs.
                          It's funny how you make pathetic excuses for any single point I make, even for the ten fold heroin production increase in Afghanistan - if it happened during the Soviet invasion it would be interpreted "because the Soviets are tyrants and drug smugglers" but since it happens during USA's invasion it's OK because heroin production creates jobs, it's also funny how if anyone uses any force the USA is the 1st country to accuse of "excessive brutality" but when the USA bombs the shit out of Japan with atom bombs or parches people with napalm it's "to save lives", I keep rereading your answer and wow, how pathetically defensive and hypocrite you are just like the USA foreign policy (except the defensive part), even glossing over the heroin and AL-quaeda like it's no big deal.
                          Now to address the geopolitics issue - when I say something about the USA or China I don't mean the people since the masses are never well informed and critically thinking so most of them follow whatever they're indoctrinated with, if they're told cavemen from Afghanistan are a threat to the USA they're like "alright, whatever it takes". The biggest mass killer in the world is the USA for now ("USA" not to be confused with the USA people, 90% of them don't even know where is Afghanistan, again, as stupid as the masses in other countries), when/if some other country becomes the strongest one - it will start being the biggest bully and biggest hypocrite and most of its people won't know that either, that's the law of geopolitics - the government forming the opinion and social consent is a critical task to be able wage such a foreign policy, which means when/if China becomes No1 in the world its masses will be indoctrinated with excuses of why it's ok to invade other countries etc.
                          Last edited by mark45; 08-03-2013, 03:54 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                            The difference is that Americans VOTE (and by definition choose) for all those things while the NKans (that curaga mentioned) don't. And USAians reap the outcome of their polices. (ie 9/11 etc.) Democracy has nothing to do with the way a nation behaves.
                            Are you sure they vote for it? AFAIK, all of the PRISM thing was kind of secret. How could you know if you share the view of the person you vote, if you don't know about the concern he/she will decide about? And patriotic act, I'm not sure there was any kind of election between the attacks and the voting of this act, and except from people with tinfoil hats that already thought about possible attacks before the previous elections, nobody would have assumed they'd be attacked to weight it before choosing. This is all too relative.
                            I agree, however, that democracy has nothing to do with the way the nation behaves, since it's just the way they decide how to behave, not the decision itself.



                            On the phone, I hope ANY phone running Wayland comes eventually to my country. I might as well give a rest to my old Nokia 1100.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jalyst View Post
                              It's pretty silly actually, there's a multitude of other considerations, many which are far more important.
                              To totally lose interest because of only that 1 factor, indicates some sort of bias, or just limited problem solving skills.
                              Far more important to you. To me not having shit poke me in the hand is very important. It is not as important to me as making phone calls and sending messages, but thankfully there are a wide variety of phones which combine those features with rounded edges, so I don't have to choose.

                              I don't know what the hell this phone can do (that a dozen other phones don't do) that is more important to you than comfort. Maybe you could explain it to me with your superb problem solving skills.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jalyst View Post
                                It's pretty silly actually, there's a multitude of other considerations, many which are far more important.
                                To totally lose interest because of only that 1 factor, indicates some sort of bias, or just limited problem solving skills.
                                It's perfectly fine to have a set of hard requirements for about anything.
                                It only becomes silly if there is no option that fulfill all hard requirements.

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