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  • #16
    Originally posted by kUrb1a View Post
    Mir is Open Source and it will have if it already has all necessary parts to make it able to run Gnome or Kde on top of it (porting gnome and kde aside).It has XMir which lets you able to run X11 applications on your desktop.Secondly Ubuntu is distribution and not some rouge OS detached from Linux ecosystem.Unity Next is written in QML as KDE is.

    Everybody will benefit from this because we will have one true OS with one codebase running on different form factors.
    Except that
    1. no one else wants to use Mir
    2. Canonical doesn't care about the compatibility or feasibility for other distros, Mir will be designed to work for Ubuntu only
    3. Everyone else is moving to use Wayland, and Ubuntu will be the only one using Mir, making Ubuntu entirely separate and incompatible from the rest of the Linux ecosystem.

    Ubuntu has abandoned the way of the desktop Linux ecosystem. It may have a Linux kernel, for now, but it is moving away from being a part of the ecosystem. Soon, we will have separate software for Ubuntu and other Linux distros, just like we already have separate software for Android. Just because something has a Linux kernel doesn't mean it's part of the desktop Linux ecosystem.

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    • #17
      Lets have a critical look at your points;

      Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
      If "they" (some company) made a phone that has:
      1. Touch screen;
      Pretty much everything has this now.

      2. Nokia E7-00 style slider qwerty keyboard;
      I just had a look at that and its actually a really crappy keyboard. The button alignment is in a grid, which is totally wrong, and its only 4-rows. For a really good slideout keyboard, have a look at Samsung SGH-T699 "Relay".

      3. Proprietary firmware (across all components or not) or open (unlocked/not secured);
      So that seems basically like a "whatever" line.... not sure why you included that point.

      4. Fully open source Linux drivers (not counting firmware, like AMD Radeon);
      There are a few blobs to deal with on virtually all hardware, but its starting to get better. The kernel drivers are all open source on most hardware, like the aforementioned SGH-T699, and some of the userspace blobs are being replaced by from-source stuff, albeit slowly. You mention AMD Radeon, its cousin, the Qualcomm Adreno (aka AMD Radeon) has open source drivers now, thanks to Rob Clark. Been so busy though, I haven't had a chance to test it in... Android.

      5. GNU toolchain;
      Google initially used bionic, I think, on account of size. Switching over to a gnu toolchain is probably not entirely unfeasible.

      6. Proprietary Navtaq and Whatsapp app;
      Android.

      7. Build in VoIP;
      ... Android.

      8. Open document XML WYSIWYG editor;
      Getting closer all the time... https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/...ice_on_Android

      9. Free and proprietary codecs;
      Uh huh....

      10. Webkit2 browser.
      I've always hated webkit, but.... Android.

      I'm sold. Seriously. I want a pocket computer that I can navigate and call with. I want websites instead of "apps" for everything on the go and I also want to be able to listen to music. I also want to type on the go and read some email.

      Good camera, Gorrila glass and waterproof is icing on the cake.

      Why does nobody simply treat smartphones as computers?! Why is it soooo hard to just make a useful phone?
      It is getting better/closer.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by przemoli View Post
        Before you say anything more...


        Linux captured 60+ % of telephone market.
        Linux captured 50+ % of tablet market.
        Its bigger than that. Android has over 75% of the smartphone market.

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        • #19
          Well, if we don't like it, we can always make a compelling alternative for the common user. The biggest problem I see is that getting everything set up is just a little bit too difficult on everything but Ubuntu and its derivatives. Debian's almost there, but openSuSE and Fedora make installing stuff like Flash and codecs annoying as hell. I'm kind of surprised that no one else has accomplished what Ubuntu has, except by using it as a base. Then again, it wasn't so long ago that all we had was GNOME 2, KDE 4, and some optional third party docks and stuff. So maybe I'm expecting too much from the community that was so recently falling short.

          Honestly, if someone can beat Ubuntu at its own game, while keeping users' interests in sight, I'm sure most of us would slowly move over. It's just really bad timing for a mutiny.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
            ...but openSuSE and Fedora make installing stuff like Flash and codecs annoying as hell. I'm kind of surprised that no one else has accomplished what Ubuntu has, except by using it as a base.
            I disagree, Mandriva, Linspire, Mepis to name a few did before Ubuntu. Fedora and openSuSE cannot include by default codecs like mp3, H264 due to software patents law in US and their philosophy to only include FOSS.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
              Why does nobody simply treat smartphones as computers?! Why is it soooo hard to just make a useful phone?
              Well, phones are more like plastic toys rather than good devices, it is many useless things in one. the only plus in it is that it is mobile, and its its job is to be able to call and send sms, for everything else i can get much better devices for the same price.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                If "they" (some company) made a phone that has:
                1. Touch screen;
                2. Nokia E7-00 style slider qwerty keyboard;
                3. Proprietary firmware (across all components or not) or open (unlocked/not secured);
                4. Fully open source Linux drivers (not counting firmware, like AMD Radeon);
                5. GNU toolchain;
                6. Proprietary Navtaq and Whatsapp app;
                7. Build in VoIP;
                8. Open document XML WYSIWYG editor;
                9. Free and proprietary codecs;
                10. Webkit2 browser.
                Sounds more or less what the Jolla phone is going to be. Mer is already doing point #5.

                Originally posted by kUrb1a View Post
                It has XMir which lets you able to run X11 applications on your desktop.Secondly Ubuntu is distribution and not some rouge OS detached from Linux ecosystem.
                You're right, Ubuntu is not a rouge OS, it's a purple OS But no, Ubuntu is moving so far away from standard GNU/Linux that it's hardly fair to call it a GNU/Linux distribution, and it's by far not a good example of GNU/Linux as a whole. So it is detached from the GNU/Linux platform, or at least getting more and more detached as time goes.

                Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
                Its bigger than that. Android has over 75% of the smartphone market.
                Not according to StatCounter. It holds only 38% of the mobile user base (which does include ARM tablets, though, and I'd suppose that iOS is stronger there).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Separate software would be a disaster for Ubuntu derivative/ Desktop users

                  Let's get real: phone and desktop are two different devices. I don't have a smartphone or tablet for security reasons, but I've seen them. Cinnamon(like on my desktops) or IceWM (as on my netbook) would be a total disaster on a smartphone, and I consider a phone UI on a big desktop, with deep menu nesting, online search, and large distances to mouse across to reach icons to be nearly as bad on the desktop. The best thing that could happen would be for Ubuntu and Mint to join forces, with Mint aimed at Desktop users and at desktop derivatives, while Ubuntu aims at going head to head with Google and Crapple in the smartphone/tablet market. To do this require some attention to compatability, making sure that no core package in the base Ubuntu system locks out X, Wayland, or any known desktop environment. Real core stuff like libc6, QT, and GTK etc needs to stay 100% compatable!

                  Here's the worry:

                  Originally posted by dee. View Post
                  Ubuntu has abandoned the way of the desktop Linux ecosystem. It may have a Linux kernel, for now, but it is moving away from being a part of the ecosystem. Soon, we will have separate software for Ubuntu and other Linux distros, just like we already have separate software for Android. Just because something has a Linux kernel doesn't mean it's part of the desktop Linux ecosystem.
                  For Ubuntu to remain intercompatable with its own derivatives, to avoid forcing everyone from Ubuntustudio to Mint to rebase on Debian only, and to avoid forcing authors of things like Audacity and Kdenlive to write for yet another OS, Ubuntu will need to meet these requirements:

                  1: No top level application that might be used by a derivative should depend on Unity, Mir, or Ubuntu-only libraries but can recommend them.

                  2: No core Ubuntu library should conflict with/prevent the installation of another desktop environment or applications used elsewhere in the Linux
                  ecosystem. Right now this is not a problem, but I worry about the future.

                  Some GNOME apps as now compiled by Ubuntu do not now meet the first test. Brasero, for instance, when pulled from Ubuntu repos depends on libunity9, libunity-common, and libunity-protocal-private0. Surely the default GNOME version does not, as these are Ubuntu-specific packages. Right now that's no big deal, but suppose in the futire Unity depends on Mir, and Mir conflicts with, say, a driver needed by X, Wayland, or whatever Cinnamon, MATE, or Icewm users need to run their systems. All this would require in my case would be two different and conflicting versions of the Radeon driver, plus a libunity dependency on Mir.

                  This situation would force every Ubuntu derivative such as Ubuntustudio and of course external ones liike Mint to recompile every package that depends on any component of Unity that pulls in conflicting libraries, My guess is this is why Mint maintains an "insurance" version based only on Debian, which would not be broken by such a situation. Alternately, they would have to mix repos, preferring ubuntu versions except where conflicting with a "core" package, and that can get ugly fast.

                  The separate application installation folders resolve that problem only for applications, not for the core system, and any attempt to run the core system that way would lead to a huge installed OS that would not fit on small "boot-drive" SSD's. I can fit three different installs of my personal fork of Ubuntu and Mint onto a 32GB SSD right now,

                  Maybe Ubuntu and Ubuntu phone need to be split into two different projects that do NOT to be totally compatable with oneanother? Ubuntu phone would only need to work on ARM for the most part, while ubuntu and its derivatives would have to support the other architectures and could also support ARM if desired. Otherwise we might end up segmenting the greater Linux ecosystem across all classes of machine, this on top of the "secure boot" fiasco with its quirks that make some machines that are supposed to be able to boot any OS only able to boot Windoze 8, or at best Windoze 8, Ubuntu, and RHEL.

                  Speaking of Windoze 8, that is doing to Microsoft what the Unity and Gnome-shell controversies did to their developers: drive off desktop users who do not want to use a touch-based, small form factor optimized UI on their desktops. Just like Gnome-shell has the frippery extensions and the Cinnamon fork, MS now has tons of aftermarket "start buttons" to revert the UI changes they made. Their "Metro" UI is almost universally blamed for the terrible reception Windoze 8 has gotten from its users.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                    Not according to StatCounter. It holds only 38% of the mobile user base (which does include ARM tablets, though, and I'd suppose that iOS is stronger there).
                    Statcounter is not accurate. It only measures sites that are affiliated with Statcounter.

                    StatCounter statistics are directly derived from hits (not unique visitors) from 3 million sites using StatCounter
                    This is not an accurate methodology and is in no way representative of actual market shares. To put it bluntly, they're pretty much pulling numbers out of their ass.
                    Last edited by dee.; 05-09-2013, 06:54 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                      You're right, Ubuntu is not a rouge OS, it's a purple OS. But no, Ubuntu is moving so far away from standard GNU/Linux that it's hardly fair to call it a GNU/Linux distribution, and it's by far not a good example of GNU/Linux as a whole. So it is detached from the GNU/Linux platform, or at least getting more and more detached as time goes.
                      It still uses standard GNU/Linux tools, GNU/Linux isn't bound to use systemd and Xorg. The definition is very broad and as far as most of the community can see, Ubuntu still stays within those bounds.
                      Also, I got rid of your emoticon, no person who is trying to have a serious discussion or at least put on the fašade that they're older than 15 years uses them, in any context.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                        Also, I got rid of your emoticon, no person who is trying to have a serious discussion or at least put on the fašade that they're older than 15 years uses them, in any context.
                        Lol, get off your high horse and remove the stick from your ass. Sounds more like you're the 15-year old who's trying too hard to act like a "super serious adult"...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dee. View Post
                          Lol, get off your high horse and remove the stick from your ass. Sounds more like you're the 15-year old who's trying too hard to act like a "super serious adult"...
                          All the trolls use them, and they serve no purpose on this forum.
                          And why so defensive? I can hardly see why someone could get so jumpy about a little criticism.
                          Last edited by intellivision; 05-10-2013, 01:55 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by intellivision View Post
                            All the trolls use them, and they serve no purpose on this forum.
                            And why so defensive? I can hardly see why someone could get so jumpy about a little criticism.
                            Well, in your dying mind, smiles are everywhere, on every forum, on every mobile phone and so on, why the hell do you think people made smiles ? I can say the same about linux, why not just remove it from world, it is only used by trolls anyway, so.... And kid or adult, it doesnt matter, what matters, that you are troll, that doesnt understand anything.

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                            • #29
                              Oh, forgot to mention - games on linux are the most "adult" thing that people do in this world

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by startzz View Post
                                Oh, forgot to mention - games on linux are the most "adult" thing that people do in this world
                                What does that even mean? Your posts make no sense. Your trolling is getting worse by the day.

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