Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Qualcomm Calls To "Kill All Proprietary Drivers For Good"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Qualcomm Calls To "Kill All Proprietary Drivers For Good"

    Phoronix: Qualcomm Calls To "Kill All Proprietary Drivers For Good"

    Next week at the 6th annual Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit in San Francisco, two Qualcomm Atheros engineers will be speaking about their Linux device driver development experiences and will go as far as calling for all proprietary drivers to be killed for good. They talk not just about killing proprietary drivers for Linux, but for all operating systems. Can the plans they lay out to kill all proprietary drivers work or is this just a big pipe-dream?

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=17208

  • #2
    Quite a bit of irony as I'm currently banging my head trying to do something extraordinarily ordinary with a Qualcomm ARM chip, only to find that the data it returns is proprietary and you need a magic decoder ring to convert it to something usable.

    Comment


    • #3
      That's because they haven't build something that may see the light of day, because, from the ground up, they haven't taken any measures to avoid into account.

      It's not a call to open source; it's a call to make something that you CAN open source.

      Duh. RTFA.

      Comment


      • #4
        Many hardware vendors remain too tight over IP concerns. Even the open-source friendly AMD with their Radeon graphics driver this week found out after months of technical/legal review that they couldn't even open up some of their HDMI/DisplayPort audio code, etc. Not to mention, open-source video decoding looks like an impossible feat at this point.
        Auggh !!

        As I said a few times already, it wasn't *our* IP that affected the audio code, it was someone *else's* IP. I don't see how you think we can "be loose with someone else's IP".

        re: open source video decode, the only one saying it's impossible is Q. We're saying it's really difficult and *might* not be possible.

        Comment


        • #5
          Software patents begone! Everyone is afraid that patent trolls will mine any company provided released drivers for potential profit generating activities through the legal system.

          Comment


          • #6
            Drivers on themselves have no value. The value is in being able to control hardware.
            I really like the idea of open sourcing drivers because many companies just abandon old things without support or anything. Sometimes not even stable, usable drivers!!! With Open Source drivers the community could adapt things to new platforms very easily.

            Comment


            • #7
              While everyone loves killer performance, the FLOSS AMD driver users are not realy into that and so I'd like to see work going into a good video hwAccel state tracker instead of a non-abstracted UVD that's only tied to Radeon anyway.

              And I'm AMD all the way in terms of GPU's and prefer AMD x86 over Intel x86, while I prefer ARM over x86, because it's fucking rediculous that anything digital still needs moving parts (fans) and draws so much power, while an iPad 3 can deliver gorgious graphics and top notch UI responsiveness with 10hours of batterylife on a damn high res display>.<
              Last edited by V!NCENT; 03-29-2012, 12:07 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                And I'm AMD all the way in terms of GPU's and prefer AMD x86 over Intel x86, while I prefer ARM over x86, because it's fucking rediculous that anything digital still needs moving parts (fans) and draws so much power, while an iPad 3 can deliver gorgious graphics and top notch UI responsiveness with 10hours of batterylife on a damn high res display>.<
                This. 10chars.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Michael: "looks like an impossible feat at this point."

                  Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                  Auggh !!

                  As I said a few times already, it wasn't *our* IP that affected the audio code, it was someone *else's* IP. I don't see how you think we can "be loose with someone else's IP".

                  re: open source video decode, the only one saying it's impossible is Q. We're saying it's really difficult and *might* not be possible.
                  LOL I'm not the only Pessimist out there now i have a big buddy "Michael" LOL

                  no I'm not the only one... Michael is also on my side

                  if a Optimist say: "t's really difficult and *might* not be possible."

                  then its a impossible suicide mission !

                  like the Japanese fighters in world war 2... "*Might* not be possible"

                  really I laugh at you when you fail with the UVD unit!

                  then the Pessimistic realists won the "Future" predict war.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Awesome, but there's a catch…

                    Originally posted by plonoma View Post
                    I really like the idea of open sourcing drivers because many companies just abandon old things without support or anything.
                    I absolutely love the idea of anyone being able to debug and improve the way my hardware works, but it's most likely never gonna happen, because the ability to force us into constantly purchasing new hardware by simply discontinuing it's proprietary drivers bears far too much commercial value.
                    Last edited by »John«; 03-29-2012, 01:15 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by plonoma View Post
                      Drivers on themselves have no value. The value is in being able to control hardware.
                      I really like the idea of open sourcing drivers because many companies just abandon old things without support or anything. Sometimes not even stable, usable drivers!!! With Open Source drivers the community could adapt things to new platforms very easily.
                      I don't know if you noticed, but it's evidently not THAT easy, since the open source community is dropping hardware too. Yeah, if you are a programmer you could adapt and maintain old hardware if you want. But there aren't unlimited devs, and not all the users of older hardware are devs either.
                      I agree, anyway, that it's far easier when it's open source than when it's proprietary, since you avoid the duplicate efforts and the reverse engineering, when you know how to code. You will probably have a full featured driver from the begining, and your task would be adapt it to API changes and/or applying new techniques. Other than that, mostly bugfixes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by V!NCENT View Post
                        while an iPad 3 can deliver gorgious graphics and top notch UI responsiveness with 10hours of batterylife on a damn high res display>.<
                        Uh, maybe you haven't noticed, but even diehard Apple fans are disappointed when the pad3 has three times the lag of pad2 (takes three seconds to flip a page in Apple's newsstand magazine reading application in ipad3).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          re: open source video decode, the only one saying it's impossible is Q. We're saying it's really difficult and *might* not be possible.
                          not to offend but i think UVD is pointless, i think would be a lot better a common gpu independant shader/CL accel API(not inside mesa) library that can be used and optimized by third parties like FFMPEG or x264 to offload the heavy compute code to GPU regardless the codec and a shader/CL filter/effect library for the eye candy

                          cuz been realistic no one in linux is gonna watch bluray's "legally" to begin with and UVD only support very few codecs compared to the massive landscape of codecs that FFMPEG can handle legally (or not i just don't care), and in fact if AMD could release UVD stripping the DRM crap we won't be able to watch bluray's either way cuz we miss the DRM crap so we have to procede the crack the disc either way since i doubt the MPEGLA will ever permit open source software to play content legally so i prefer have all my videos with GPU accel/filters at the expense of more power and not be tied to a VPU.

                          ofc this will require some tuning but if my phenom can handle 1080p like a champ without drop frames at all, even a modest HTPC class GPU should offer a very respectable performance using heavy filters to improve image quality

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                            Auggh !!

                            As I said a few times already, it wasn't *our* IP that affected the audio code, it was someone *else's* IP. I don't see how you think we can "be loose with someone else's IP".

                            re: open source video decode, the only one saying it's impossible is Q. We're saying it's really difficult and *might* not be possible.
                            If that 3rd party's license does *not* allow redistribution or disclosure then it cannot be released, naturally. it sure can take a lot of time and resources doing socalled workarounds though

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              Auggh !!

                              As I said a few times already, it wasn't *our* IP that affected the audio code, it was someone *else's* IP. I don't see how you think we can "be loose with someone else's IP".
                              ...Okaaaay, but how is this different from AMD itself refusing to open their own IP?

                              If a neighbor comes to your door wanting to borrow a cup of sugar, and you say "no -- absolutely not", are they going to care whether the reason why you said no is (a) you're an asshole, or (b) the guy you bought the sugar from at the supermarket is an asshole, who told you that you can't share it with anybody?

                              In both of these situations, you're to blame. The blame is obvious in situation (a), and I'm sure that (UVD aside) AMD wouldn't actually be in that situation, so you probably agree with me that this case wouldn't come up for AMD very often. For situation (b), you might be pointing at the guy at the supermarket and saying vehemently, "Hey, it's his choice, not mine!" -- but it was you who bought the product in the first place. "Let the buyer beware" -- AMD didn't think through the consequences of their actions when they purchased that IP.

                              Now it needs to reap the inevitable consequences of that, such as its customers being irrational/unreasonable and asking, "well why the hell would you buy sugar from someone who wouldn't let you share it with other people?!" When you make bad choices, expect them to come back to bite you. The world does not forget or forgive as easily as you want us to, especially when we have a quite-inflated sense of entitlement resulting from having bought your company's products and/or having invested varying degrees of cash into your company's stock.

                              This may not be a particularly common request -- after all, how many Windows users are insisting on free drivers or care about the encumbered IP -- but this is one of those decisions that is much more consequential than a cup of sugar, so the collective consciousness of your customers is all hoping that AMD will make wise and far-sighted decisions in the design of its hardware, accounting for market forces and potential situations that may not be fully realized at the time.

                              For all of the hardware decisions made up through, say, HD6000, I forgive you, because I know that you guys (the open source group within AMD) had very little involvement in the planning for that hardware. But if this situation crops up again for HD8000, it will be clear to all that you guys tried, unsuccessfully, to design a GPU free of external IP, and that the need for a quick fix for the Windows users took precedence over your concerns. If that's how it's gonna be, don't worry -- AMD alternatives are starting to emerge as Intel ramps up its GPU performance.

                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              re: open source video decode, the only one saying it's impossible is Q. We're saying it's really difficult and *might* not be possible.
                              For this one I'm actually going to give you an easy out that a lot of people won't accept. Get the Gallium3d shader-based video decoding working well and I'll let you off the hook for UVD. From a desktop perspective the two solutions are equivalent in the results, except maybe a measurable difference in power, but who cares for a desktop?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X