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The Leading Cause Of The Recent Linux Kernel Power Problems

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  • One more thing .. While this issue was being bisected for months, at what point was the kernel team engaged to help identify or correct the issue?

    Searching lKML seems to indicate that this "regression" hasn't been reported yet. When will Michael take his findings to the kernel team?

    After another 25 articles about it perhaps?

    Comment


    • If your computers are all from the same manufacturer & type, it's possible that no one reports a problem - they may have a proper BIOS. And it's also dependent on the age of the computers. Older ones may not use PCI-E that extensively. Netbooks often use Intel graphics, which may be connected directly to the PCI bus insteatd of via a PCI-E port.
      You cannot deny that there are some users with problems. Many people can run Linux 2.6.38 fine, and desktop users often don't notice that there's a problem, but there ARE users affected.

      Please stop arguing about who speaks the truth.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by fewt View Post
        or actually spend time finding the problem
        there is NO evidence that it's real.

        To the rest of my comments you have quoted out of context, they were correct in their proper context, as the bug didn't exist until it was proven to exist.
        Taking out of context? The context is provided by direct posts that you posted.

        For example..

        What you fail to realize though is that the burdon of proof is not on me. It is not my responsibility to disprove that the bug exists, it is on Phoronix who initiated and continued these same baseless claims for months.


        He first noticed the issue in late April, they were not "baseless" and that has been proven.

        I don't think that it is too much to ask for Phoronix to actually prove their theory after all this time by showing us the commit since the claim was made in the first article that it would be found "quickly".
        We also know about Michealís attempts at finding a device that would allow him to track it down easier and in a timely matter. We also know that he received it mid June. Had everybody listened to you there would have been no testing done because you kept claiming it "did not exist"

        I see that the only value you bring to this forum is in the form of personally attacking anyone that disagrees with Michael. A troll as moderator, nice.
        Lol, you know it was you that was trolling. I can go on and quote quite a few attacks made by you to pretty much anybody that disagreed with you. If quoting your own posts is trolling then so be it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by fewt View Post
          Ė]fuduntu 2 points 7 days ago*
          Hindsight is 20-20. Comment posted after the article was published.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            Taking out of context? The context is provided by direct posts that you posted.
            The context is provided by the original threads.

            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            [/B]He first noticed the issue in late April, they were not "baseless" and that has been proven.
            Yes, It has been proven now, and you'll find that I'm not disagreeing with that. It however only impacts a very small subset of systems.

            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            We also know about Michealís attempts at finding a device that would allow him to track it down easier and in a timely matter. We also know that he received it mid June. Had everybody listened to you there would have been no testing done because you kept claiming it "did not exist"
            I asked several times for the evidence to prove that it was real, you can't discount that, nor can you prove that I hadn't asked for it. Since April.

            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            Lol, you know it was you that was trolling. I can go on and quote quite a few attacks made by you to pretty much anybody that disagreed with you. If quoting your own posts is trolling then so be it.
            Oh I see. I provide sufficient evidence to show that this "major" regression is at most minor (see link above to the original post), and continue to argue against the non-proven bug is trolling? You have trolled every single one of my comments here, it seems that is your specialty.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
              Hindsight is 20-20. Comment posted after the article was published.
              Meaningless, because I said it just the same. You claimed that I didn't and I have proven to have said it 7 days ago, deal with it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                Hindsight is 20-20. Comment posted after the article was published.
                (second request)

                One more thing .. While this issue was being bisected for months, at what point was the kernel team engaged to help identify or correct the issue?

                Searching lKML seems to indicate that this "regression" hasn't been reported yet. When will Michael take his findings to the kernel team?

                After another 25 articles about it perhaps?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by fewt View Post
                  The context is provided by the original threads.
                  Go ahead and re-read those entire threads. NOTHING is out of context.

                  Yes, It has been proven now, and you'll find that I'm not disagreeing with that. It however only impacts a very small subset of systems.
                  First of all you did not say "only impacts a very small subset of systems." You said "it doesn't exist". I pointed out to you back then that saying "it doesn't exits" because of you not experiencing it wasn't valid. So who fired the first shot?

                  Originally Posted by deanjo
                  Again that really doesn't prove anything. Until you can 100% prove and 100% replicate each of those reports you cannot say with certainty that they don't exist.


                  The reports are useless, if you can't or are unwilling to see that then I would question anything else that you have to say in relation to the issue.
                  Followed up with

                  Originally Posted by deanjo
                  You seem to miss an extremely simple concept here. Being not able to replicate is not proof that it does not exist. It only proves that you cannot replicate it.


                  I haven't missed any concept. To imply that I have shows that you either don't understand my comments, or that you are too arrogant to admit that I might be right.

                  Either way, it's your problem.
                  I asked several times for the evidence to prove that it was real, you can't discount that, nor can you prove that I hadn't asked for it. Since April.

                  Actually your very first post told people to "Time to let it go and move on, or actually spend time finding the problem instead of writing articles about it." which Michael did. He spent his own time and money isolating it down.


                  Oh I see. I provide sufficient evidence to show that this "major" regression is at most minor (see link above to the original post), and continue to argue against the non-proven bug is trolling? You have trolled every single one of my comments here, it seems that is your specialty.
                  Non proven? In the very same post you say it is proven.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by fewt View Post
                    Meaningless, because I said it just the same. You claimed that I didn't and I have proven to have said it 7 days ago, deal with it.
                    7 days ago is after the article was published. The article was written on the 26th of June. So you have proven that hindsight is indeed 20-20.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      Go ahead and re-read those entire threads. NOTHING is out of context.
                      Comprehension isn't your strong suit. I implied that the context was provided by the threads.

                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      First of all you did not say "only impacts a very small subset of systems." You said "it doesn't exist". I pointed out to you back then that saying "it doesn't exits" because of you not experiencing it wasn't valid. So who fired the first shot?
                      I did, because until it was proven to exist, it didn't exist. Now, I am saying that it only impacts a very small subset of devices which is true .. per the commit.

                      I gave Michael the benefit of the doubt for months (which you can find me quoted as saying).

                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      Actually your very first post told people to "Time to let it go and move on, or actually spend time finding the problem instead of writing articles about it." which Michael did. He spent his own time and money isolating it down.
                      That's not my very first post. My very first post was this one:

                      http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...ht=#post201069

                      Where I said, and I quote:

                      I don't know that I would call this a kernel regression, as the kernel doesn't dynamically change parameters based on applied power state. That's what you need something like Jupiter for..

                      In that thread I also show two distinctly different platforms and how they don't show any symptom of the bug.


                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      Non proven? In the very same post you say it is proven.
                      In my very first post I said I wouldn't call it a regression, I neither confirmed nor denied the existence of the bug.

                      If you follow the initial conversation fully, you'll have the context that sets up the rest of my comments on the matter across all of the related threads (which really says there are too many articles, and not enough action which was and remains my chief complaint). You'll also find several comments where I helped people check for kernel options needed test to determine if they have this "bug".

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                        7 days ago is after the article was published. The article was written on the 26th of June. So you have proven that hindsight is indeed 20-20.
                        It doesn't prove anything. Prove that I read the article before commenting. I don't read Phoronix every day, and hadn't even noticed this article until July 1st.

                        http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...790#post216790

                        Comment


                        • (third request)

                          One more thing .. While this issue was being bisected for months, at what point was the kernel team engaged to help identify or correct the issue?

                          Searching lKML seems to indicate that this "regression" hasn't been reported yet. When will Michael take his findings to the kernel team?

                          After another 25 articles about it perhaps?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by fewt View Post
                            Comprehension isn't your strong suit. I implied that the context was provided by the threads.

                            I did, because until it was proven to exist, it didn't exist. Now, I am saying that it only impacts a very small subset of devices which is true .. per the commit.
                            I can comprehend fine. I can comprehend that you were speculating through out the whole time and later tried to offer an absolute answer that "it does not exist" and despite being pointed out that because you could not replicate it and had your own theory you were unwilling to accept that it did exist until after the article was published. BTW it is not as small of a subset as you think it is. Does it effect 100% of systems, absolutely not but I would wager that it effects a minimum of 5% of the systems out there if not more.

                            That's not my very first post. My very first post was this one:

                            http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...ht=#post201069

                            Where I said, and I quote:

                            I don't know that I would call this a kernel regression, as the kernel doesn't dynamically change parameters based on applied power state. That's what you need something like Jupiter for..

                            In that thread I also show two distinctly different platforms and how they don't show any symptom of the bug.


                            In my very first post I said I wouldn't call it a regression, I neither confirmed nor denied the existence of the bug.

                            If you follow the initial conversation fully, you'll have the context that sets up the rest of my comments on the matter across all of the related threads (which really says there are too many articles, and not enough action which was and remains my chief complaint). You'll also find several comments where I helped people check for kernel options needed test to determine if they have this "bug".
                            I was actually referring to your very first post on this article/thread

                            http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...sktop-Hardware

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by fewt View Post
                              It doesn't prove anything. Prove that I read the article before commenting. I don't read Phoronix every day, and hadn't even noticed this article until July 1st.
                              You are the one that offered it as "proof". All it proves it that you posted it post article.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                                I can comprehend fine. I can comprehend that you were speculating through out the whole time and later tried to offer an absolute answer that "it does not exist" and despite being pointed out that because you could not replicate it and had your own theory you were unwilling to accept that it did exist until after the article was published. BTW it is not as small of a subset as you think it is. Does it effect 100% of systems, absolutely not but I would wager that it effects a minimum of 5% of the systems out there if not more.
                                I was unwilling to accept that it existed until it was proven to exist based on my applied testing that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that it didn't impact the portable computers that I tested it on. There is nothing wrong with that, in theory or in practice.

                                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                                By the way, claiming that it impacts 5% is wild speculation in itself.
                                No no, you have to consider all of my comments, not just what you choose to use.

                                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                                I was actually referring to your very first post on this article/thread
                                That isn't what you said. What you said was:

                                Actually your very first post told people to "Time to let it go and move on, or actually spend time finding the problem instead of writing articles about it." which Michael did. He spent his own time and money isolating it down.

                                My very first comment in relation to this "regression" was in April, it isn't too much to ask for to ask for the bug to be identified a few months later.

                                (fourth request)

                                One more thing .. While this issue was being bisected for months, at what point was the kernel team engaged to help identify or correct the issue?

                                Searching lKML seems to indicate that this "regression" hasn't been reported yet. When will Michael take his findings to the kernel team?

                                After another 25 articles about it perhaps?

                                Comment

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