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The Leading Cause Of The Recent Linux Kernel Power Problems

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  • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    Oh please, PTS is an aggregate of third party benchmarks that puts the results in a unified form. Third party validations has been done by a number of users.
    Which users?

    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    You say it is non-scientific but yet you deny existence of anything you have not experienced. The basis of all science stems from one question "I do not know." It does not deny anything until every avenue and data set has been confirmed, cross checked and proven without doubt. Until that happens it is a theory.
    No I didn't deny any existence (at first), I said quite clearly that had there been ample evidence to support it I wouldn't have argued against it. That didn't happen though, and my own evidence didn't support it. It was a theory that was claimed in multiple articles as a fact when it hadn't been proven to be a fact.

    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    The point is that you cannot say if it is or not, just that you simply do not know. However you can make observations saying "i think something is wrong" and that does warrant further investigation.
    I can though provide evidence against which I did, in April.

    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    "Most" is not all. Until you can say "all" there is always a possibility of an issue that you have not known about.
    There is always a possibility that the sun will crash into the earth (or vaporize it along the way), but we wouldn't claim that it's happening without sufficient evidence, now would we?

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    • This morning Jesse wrote, "the behavior unfortunately sounds correct (or at least intended)." He confirmed that they just use a BIOS flag to determine whether to manage the PCI Express link state, since if both the kernel and BIOS are attempting to manage the PCI-E link, a hang can result or the device failing.
      Hmm.. Sounds familiar.. Who-else-said-this-I-wonder?

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      • Originally posted by fewt View Post
        Hmm.. Sounds familiar.. Who-else-said-this-I-wonder?
        The same person probably that later said "it didn't exist".

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        • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          The same person probably that later said "it didn't exist".
          Ugh, here we go again..

          /thread

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          • Originally posted by fewt View Post
            Which users?
            Oh heck just read the many threads here on the subject not to mention bugzilla reports to distros.


            No I didn't deny any existence (at first), I said quite clearly that had there been ample evidence to support it I wouldn't have argued against it. That didn't happen though, and my own evidence didn't support it. It was a theory that was claimed in multiple articles as a fact when it hadn't been proven to be a fact.
            So what you have is two pieces of evidence that oppose each other. That still does not mean that something does not exist. The fact is that there were power consumption regressions. That is known. What you are asking for is the cause and this is what took time to get to you (a whole whopping 2 months). Given that Michael has many other things to do that is very reasonable.

            I can though provide evidence against which I did, in April.
            No actually you provided evidence on a non related cause that exhibited similar effects.

            There is always a possibility that the sun will crash into the earth (or vaporize it along the way), but we wouldn't claim that it's happening without sufficient evidence, now would we?
            At one time people thought the earth was flat and that was considered "fact" too.

            (BTW the sun will eventually engulf earth, that is pretty much known fact made by observations of supernova).

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            • LOL

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              • Aaaaaaanyway, just to get back onto power usage & whatnot, I'm going to say that frequency scaling issues definitely have affected a htpc system I use (intel atom). Using on-demand vs conservative, the on-demand uses less. This is based on the ever-so-accurate hearing fan spin higher, and putting hand next to the system air outflow. Best guess - on demand jumped things up and got them done quicker, and so overall more time was spent in low frequency mode.
                I'm also a fan of comparing distros - same machine with a fresh ubuntu install ran slower, and raised temperatures considerably higher than a fresh gentoo install. This isn't a matter of "oh no, 2% difference!", it was a case of the main fan spinning louder than the movie or not.
                There, now go argue the reasons for that one.

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                • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  (BTW the sun will eventually engulf earth, that is pretty much known fact made by observations of supernova).
                  The Sun does not have enough mass to go supernova. It will engulf the Earth (probably) for different reasons. A supernova would not actually "engulf" the earth; it would blow it to smithereens instead.
                  Last edited by RealNC; 07-05-2011, 05:59 PM.

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                  • FWIW, for me, workaround is working around.

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                    • It seems that the Arch Linux people found a solution to this problem before Michael:

                      https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=120640

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