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NetworkManager 0.7.1 Brings Linux Network Love

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  • #16
    Originally posted by tball View Post
    NM works fine here.

    Why is everyone bashing open source projects all the time. If you have something to complain about, correct it yourself or startup a new project? Remember they are doing everything for free, so you can use it without paying anything.

    Wait some time an NM will be better, I'm sure of that. Even if you don't help them out with current bugs ;-)
    People don't bash projects enough. That's the problem.

    Ever tried to add static routes through the 'routes' section of NM? It lets you enter them and then just throws them into the bit bucket.

    Another thing that just _blows_ about NM is that its not designed to work at the OS level. Its designed to work on the desktop level. Take a look at the /etc/network/interfaces file on a server. Now take a look at it on a recent ubuntu desktop. Ridiculous.
    Last edited by Hohlraum; 04-17-2009, 08:29 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by kraftman View Post
      However, Linux and Windows have much better wi-fi support then Macos.
      In what waysfor the average user? For 99% of the people out there OS X 's wifi is all they need. The #1 airport call to apple is why people can't leech of their neighbors wifi anymore and it keeps asking for a password when they try to connect to it. The answer is because your neighbor caught on and finally protected his wifi. #2 is environmental interference. #3 is trying to connect to a Linksys WRT-54g with old buggy firmware. It's extremely rare for apple to receive a call about relatively obscure setup issues.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
        In what waysfor the average user? For 99% of the people out there OS X 's wifi is all they need. The #1 airport call to apple is why people can't leech of their neighbors wifi anymore and it keeps asking for a password when they try to connect to it. The answer is because your neighbor caught on and finally protected his wifi. #2 is environmental interference. #3 is trying to connect to a Linksys WRT-54g with old buggy firmware. It's extremely rare for apple to receive a call about relatively obscure setup issues.
        I'm not interested if for 99% of the people out there Macose 's wifi is all they need. Maybe it's only for 10% people? You can't proof. It just doesn't have as good support as two other OS'es. #4 because Macos doesn't support some Wi-Fi cards or it just 'supports' them.

        Your posts sound sometimes like marketing talk and Milton should be proud :P
        Last edited by kraftman; 04-17-2009, 10:51 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by drag View Post
          1. It automatically is able to not only allow me to join multiple wireless networks, but networks with different levels and different types of security.
          No it can't. When you try to join another network it tears down all the others. Puts you into shit if you want to dynamically route through your box.

          2. It not only is able to do that, but it is able to remember the configuration and generate such configurations on the fly.
          Which I _do not want_! There are a couple of fucking moron APs in this house I'm in and my fucking list is cluttered full with those fucking shit APs and you _can't get rid of them_! Besides NM is not fucking able to remember my own AP because it's fucking HIDDEN! ( so much for _manual_ configuration you morons ).

          3. When I am running a VM in Network Manager the virtual ethernet switch for my virtual network of virtual machines are able to connect, on the fly, to the internet through any network interface I happen to be using at the time. It just 'goes'.
          It crashes the VM. If that's a great feature I'm Santa Clause.

          So now a few more points.

          1) OpenSwan is impossible to do with NM because you need root access to fire up the connection ( /etc/init.d/ipsec start requires root ). I therefore need to manually fire up the tunnel whenever I connect. Big shit since I have two different networks: at home I need IPSec as otherwise wifi denies access. At university I need no IPSec since it's using a fucking crapshit proprietary bull cisco crap VPN which doesn't work with anything else than Macs so you have to do some annoying Proxy dancing to get on the network. NM is incapable of doing either correctly.

          2) Static IPs are NOT possible. I have a very specific network setup ( it's called security but NM knows shit about network security ) which requires certain network parameters to be static. NM is unable to properly do this since it just takes an IP and the rest it fucks up. With other words wired connection does not work through NM. I don't want to bull up a terminal to fix the mistakes and inabilities of NM. Especially not in such a fucking trivial job like doing a fucking static network connection. Hell damn it even Gentoo can do this using their network config tool on the install CD and NM with all the bells and whistles can't fucking do it? That's just bull... _BULL_!

          What pisses me off on NM is that it falls prone to the FS-Disease. Don't implement fucking advanced stuff if you fail at the basic stuff. It just totally cripples your software and as such cripples Linux as a whole. People do not see what you _can_ do but where you _fail_ at. So stop feature-whore on your projects until you have fixed the fucking basics! That's the main problem with NM and it doesn't make it better that there is no better alternative.

          Oh and bug reports you can smoke in a fucking crack pipe. It's not the first FS project I've seen where the devers give shits about bug reports if they don't fit their agenda. This is bullshit behavior and shows just that the devers are unable to do a proper project. Since I'm doing an FS project myself ( including a released one ) I am allowed to piss over other devers so don't come with the piss poor "stop whining" line. Ass licking won't change faulty apps.

          Sorry for the big rant here but it pisses me off to see Linux dragged into the mud by crappy projects with those then moaning about people not liking Linux. It's your fucking fault!

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          • #20
            Dragonlord: some of what you complain about is old news, NM 0.6 and older. E.g., NM 0.7 allows multiple networks to be active at once.

            In a lot of ways I agree that they've fucked up the simple things. The fact that NM only works when logged in to the desktop really annoys me; I have gdm off by default and login to a text terminal. Their "system-settings" stuff has never worked for me. It's incredibly stupid (to me) that I have to fire up X before DNS will work, or before ntpdate can talk to a time server, because NM won't authenticate to the wifi before then.

            But I've spent a lot of time on the NM mailing lists and inside the code, tweaking things to make it work better for me. That's the other point about free software - if the principal developers don't listen to my ideas, I can say "screw you" and continue to use it the way I want it...

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            • #21
              In fact all these beefs happen on the newest version, which is 0.7 . And it doesn't happen only on one system it happens on various systems. One of the reasons I have a hard time putting Linux on road warriors since NM keeps messing up and those people are not tech savvy enough to fire up a terminal to connect to some network.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                I'm not interested if for 99% of the people out there Macose 's wifi is all they need. Maybe it's only for 10% people? You can't proof. It just doesn't have as good support as two other OS'es. #4 because Macos doesn't support some Wi-Fi cards or it just 'supports' them.

                Your posts sound sometimes like marketing talk and Milton should be proud :P
                Umm, all macs have come with standard wifi for quite some time as standard issue, so the need for it to support other wifi cards is negligable (with the exception of the MacPro and xserve).

                When I was at apple you better believe I could put hard numbers to issues.

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