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Icculus Ports Prey Game Client To Linux

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  • #61
    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    Yes there will always be a certain degree of error. You would have to measure it within a reasonable timeframe (ie a month). Your best results would be to have a game that was digitally distributed where the downloads could be counted if the client was released while the game was in the hype. Another way one could measure is with a game such as WoW where clients being used can be easily tracked.
    iD has DRM on Doom3 and Quake4. If it worked like you think it did we'd have an official version already reserved of Rage. We don't- so either it doesn't show accurate numbers in their opinions, or we're fooling ourselves thinking there's a real market (which I seriously doubt we're fooling ourselves, deanjo...).

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
      iD has DRM on Doom3 and Quake4. If it worked like you think it did we'd have an official version already reserved of Rage. We don't- so either it doesn't show accurate numbers in their opinions, or we're fooling ourselves thinking there's a real market (which I seriously doubt we're fooling ourselves, deanjo...).
      what kind of drm was in doom3 and quake4? Safedisc? Thats not exactly DRM, or at least a useful DRM. :P

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
        iD has DRM on Doom3 and Quake4. If it worked like you think it did we'd have an official version already reserved of Rage. We don't- so either it doesn't show accurate numbers in their opinions, or we're fooling ourselves thinking there's a real market (which I seriously doubt we're fooling ourselves, deanjo...).
        I seriously think your over estimating the linux market. iD treats linux as "hobby project" and doesn't see it as a money maker at all. Remember, linux's percieved desktop market share are just as easily if not more skewed as towards it's market penetration.

        There is certainly no plans for a commercially supported linux version of Rage, but there will very likely be a linux executable made available. It isn't running at the moment, but we have had it compiled in the past. Running on additional platforms usually provides some code quality advantages, and it really only takes one interested programmer to make it happen.

        The PC version is still OpenGL, but it is possible that could change before release. The actual API code is not very large, and the vertex / fragment code can be easily translated between cg/hlsl/glsl as necessary. I am going to at least consider OpenGL 3.0 as a target, if Nvidia, ATI, and Intel all have decent support. There really won't be any performance difference between GL 2.0 / GL 3.0 / D3D, so the api decision will be based on secondary factors, of which inertia is one.

        John Carmack

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        • #64
          Originally posted by xav1r View Post
          what kind of drm was in doom3 and quake4? Safedisc? Thats not exactly DRM, or at least a useful DRM. :P
          Safedisc is not a form of DRM.Safedisc is copyprotection.

          DRM requires product authentication by an authority upon use of the product. Doom3 / Quake 4 called their servers up to check if the key was valid everytime is was started up. If it wasn't it would say "Sorry invalid serial" and not run.

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          • #65
            I'm greatly surprised by this port. I've heard a bit about this game when it came out but I've never known either its story nor its original gameplay, but I'm pleased : I discovered a very good game (thinking about it, it's 3D Realms after all!).

            I'm just a bit disapointed that, like every SDL game I've played so far, the keys to switch weapon don't work on an azerty layout. I always have to use the mousewheel.

            But it won't prevent me to buy the game ^^

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            • #66
              Originally posted by deanjo View Post
              I seriously think your over estimating the linux market. iD treats linux as "hobby project" and doesn't see it as a money maker at all. Remember, linux's percieved desktop market share are just as easily if not more skewed as towards it's market penetration.
              Consider your current remarks, deanjo...

              If what you say is true, then why even bother with anything of what you suggest at all?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                Consider your current remarks, deanjo...

                If what you say is true, then why even bother with anything of what you suggest at all?

                In an attempt to get some sort of meaningful numbers instead of wild, shaky, speculative fanboy assumptions.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  In an attempt to get some sort of meaningful numbers instead of wild, shaky, speculative fanboy assumptions.
                  Heh... You've been given some meaningful numbers that they know of and I know of. You appear to not like what I've told you or they've told you. That's okay. I don't like it any better than you.

                  Novell gives a meaningful estimate at about 30 million users worldwide for Linux back about 3 or so years ago.

                  That number, by the by, has went up a bit since then with netbooks, etc. being sold to the tune of somewhere between 1-4 million units with Linux on them and the units pretty much not being re-purposed. This doesn't even get into the installs that aren't counted.

                  So, the number is likely to be between 30 and 50 million worldwide.

                  Now, that's total numbers and doesn't lead to gamer demographic sales.

                  IF you go by the sales that we've mustered in the past and recent times, an SKU manages something on the order 200-1000 units in sales, with the typical number being around the 200-500 unit range. Oddlabs has reported that roughly 10% of their paying customers have been Linux users (raises hand...nice game...fun one...) and that they intend on continuing to provide Linux versions. All in all, though, we're seeing only a peak sales figure of about 2000 units for Linux-only installs.

                  Now, there's numerous reasons this has been the case, and we've hashed them out time and time again in these forums- but it remains that the sales are what they are.

                  Now, if you want to be gathering the numbers that I think you're actually looking for, you might want to suggest to a vendor that they find some way of distinguishing Cedga/CrossOver/WINE versus Windows installations of their stuff. You might even actually see that happen, if you can get the bean counters, PHB's, etc. to twig onto the fact that WINE != a good experience for many titles and it'd be better to make a native one, from the consumer point of view and from a development standpoint because cross-platform ferrets out crap that'd end up being annoying mystery transients in the game that turn customer off.

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                  • #69
                    Novell gives a meaningful estimate at about 30 million users worldwide for Linux back about 3 or so years ago.
                    I remember that number and if I recall correctly it didn't distinguish desktop/server/embedded from that estimate.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                      I remember that number and if I recall correctly it didn't distinguish desktop/server/embedded from that estimate.
                      It's not that the numbers are off, deanjo, it's that people keep doing counterproductive things for themselves in the context of trying to get native gaming going. As for gaming, anything other than server numbers will count towards your magic goal.

                      You've also been given good numbers as well.

                      1) A fairly accurate appraisal of what happened to Codeweavers back on the 28th...over 500,000 downloads, most of which happen to be individual desktop licenses...

                      2) Over a million Linux eeePC's, most of which haven't been repurposed with XP.

                      3) There's similar stories with the other netbooks with only one player ditching it completely because they can't get a good Linux distribution onto their netbook in a timely manner.

                      4) And this doesn't even get into other handheld devices like the N8x0 or the Pandora where while we have good guesses (~1 million on the Nokia devices... At least 4000 in the case of the Pandora on pre-order...) we don't have solid figures because the vendor doesn't hand them out (Heh...they're still doing N8x0's and sellin' them- Nokia doesn't bother with a next gen (Which is in progress, purportedly using the OMAP3 SoC...) unless it sold well enough for them to have bothered past the first test model (N770...)) or the vendor doesn't KNOW how it's going to play out (Pandora...could just be 4000, but it's shaping up to be more than that in the long-run...).

                      So, while you don't have your gaming stats like you think you're going to get on this, you're unlikey to be getting the figures you want to hear.

                      I doubt you're going to GET them because you'd need a AAA title that was interested in an official Linux version and was in a position to sell easily a half million or more units for all platforms and was interested in telling you those numbers they got.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                        Safedisc is not a form of DRM.Safedisc is copyprotection.

                        DRM requires product authentication by an authority upon use of the product. Doom3 / Quake 4 called their servers up to check if the key was valid everytime is was started up. If it wasn't it would say "Sorry invalid serial" and not run.
                        Ah yea, thats right, i think in version 1.0 of both games it let you play single player and connect to 1.0 servers with no cdkey check. Starting from 1.2 in doom3 and 1.3 (i think) in quake4, the online check was done right at the begginning, and if it didnt seem valid, it'd boot you back to the desktop, no chance to do anything. Very draconian when compared to their earlier games like q3, where it didnt ask you to check until you connected, and even then sometimes it'd work without a cdkey.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                          Ah yea, thats right, i think in version 1.0 of both games it let you play single player and connect to 1.0 servers with no cdkey check. Starting from 1.2 in doom3 and 1.3 (i think) in quake4, the online check was done right at the begginning, and if it didnt seem valid, it'd boot you back to the desktop, no chance to do anything. Very draconian when compared to their earlier games like q3, where it didnt ask you to check until you connected, and even then sometimes it'd work without a cdkey.
                          Ya, it was a pretty weak form of DRM, most people that only wanted to play the single player would block the serial check request with iptables because if the request timed out trying to reach the server it would let you continue on without the key being authenticated.

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                          • #73
                            Just got the retail version of Prey today. Now waiting for the official client release >.<

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by RobbieAB View Post
                              Possibly 2K games are doing it as a "test the waters" with little upfront cost to them if the have the client sitting around anyway? It's an old game, so a sales jump on the foot of releasing a Linux client can be attributed in part to the client. Even if it's people buying the Windows version to play with Linux using friends, it still sales generated by having a Linux version available.
                              I doubt that, 2K has already shown that they don't fully support the platform (see Serious Sam 2's lack of multiplayer), but releasing on other platforms does keep the game in the minds of gamers which can drive support for the sequel.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                                I doubt that, 2K has already shown that they don't fully support the platform (see Serious Sam 2's lack of multiplayer), but releasing on other platforms does keep the game in the minds of gamers which can drive support for the sequel.
                                This can be due to one of two things, either what you suppose, or that someone used DirectPlay as the network abstraction layer.

                                If you use DirectPlay, you've two choices, do without multiplayer, or come up with some alternate for the port projects as there is no wireline support without using the DirectX 9c runtime libs in WINE under Linux.

                                This is the reason Ballistics isn't wireline compatible with the Windows version. Since everyone complained about that, it's something that a vendor has to think long and hard about. Do multiplayer and have them gripe. Don't do it and have them gripe- and not spend as much effort doing the port.

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