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When Will UT3 For Linux Be Released?

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  • I don't remember exactly about this jitter thing, but it sounds plausible at least. Maybe one of you guys could post a 10 seconds clip somewhere on the web, with just this point demonstrated: an enemy standing still, and you taking a couple of shots at him, having him straight in the crosshairs? If there's induced inaccuracy on the laugh-gun then I guess the enemy should stand far away when shooting him, so that the inaccuracy can be amplified by the distance to target?

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    • Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
      There is no induced inaccuracy (which, for some bizarre reason, you've taken to calling "jitter") in the Lightning Gun as packaged in UT2003 and UT2004. I can assure you: everything you need to verify what I am saying is right out in the open and easily accessible without a commercial engine license. If you wish to continue to argue this point, you will need to unpack your files and show what code the entire development community has missed in the past five years. Really, though, the only explanation that isn't, "You simply cannot aim," is that you have high latency on your WAN connection.
      The problem with your line of thinking is that "jitter" is the industry accepted term for introducing some randomization of the results into something, whether it's deliberate or not. Moreover, he's largly right- if you're in the same position and you don't get 100% results, there's a variance there.

      You can say that it's not induced, but that would be inaccurate- as if there wasn't some random variances, due to a physics model that doesn't work consistently to a random-walk algorithm for in-flight behavior, you would get 100% of the shots 100% of the time if they're properly lined up. I've observed a bit of this myself in the game. "High latency on your wan connection" would also count as a cause of Jitter. And I don't seem to recall some of the other online deathmatch type games having quite so much issues with latency- moreover, I've noticed the issue in question from time to time and I don't HAVE a really high-latency connection and haven't had one for quite some time.

      PS: "Hit-scan" is an accepted domain term of players, modders, and many developers and could not be called "incorrect" in the slightest.
      Uh... I'd not heard the term before and I've been at doing game dev for a bit now.
      Last edited by Svartalf; 03-09-2009, 08:39 AM.

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      • Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
        Please read what I posted. A hit-scan ( correct term is ray-cast by the way ) yields a boolean result, this is correct, but the DIRECTION into which the ray-cast is done is random. Otherwise I would not have gotten this miserable hit ratios in my testings. Games like Q3A have no jittering on the ray-cast and therefore are always accurate. This is not the case here as otherwise I would have obtained a 100% hit rate which is not the case. It's a common trick done by developers to balance weapons by adding inaccuracy to strong ones or long reload times ( or small clips ). Here though they went too far turning the LG into a laugh-gun. At last in UT3 the sniper is a sniper again as it should be: powerful but slow.
        2k3/2k4 sniper and lg are the exact same weapon but with different models/effects/sounds

        the sniper is better but only because its harder to see where the shot comes from

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        • Can't talk about the Sniper. In my version it did not exist, only the LG.

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          • its a mutator that comes with the game also there is no lg on deck 17 just sniper

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            • Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
              Can't talk about the Sniper. In my version it did not exist, only the LG.
              That was in 2K3, I have both on a standard disc (so that means the 1.0 version) and 2K4 really comes standard with the sniper rifle. You might have missed it because all of the 2K3 maps that where in 2K4 still had the LG instead of the Sniper.

              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
              Uh... I'd not heard the term before and I've been at doing game dev for a bit now.
              But not UT related dev. work, right?

              I have been a UT fanatic in the past (99/2K4 era), and the term 'hitscan' is commonly used among UT players and mappers.

              Proving it is easy: Just go to a site like Beyond Unreal, or Epics own forums. Type 'hitscan' in the search field and you'll see we are right.

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              • Just because "one" company does this doesn't make it the standard, right?

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                • Originally posted by MaestroMaus View Post
                  That was in 2K3, I have both on a standard disc (so that means the 1.0 version) and 2K4 really comes standard with the sniper rifle. You might have missed it because all of the 2K3 maps that where in 2K4 still had the LG instead of the Sniper.


                  But not UT related dev. work, right?

                  I have been a UT fanatic in the past (99/2K4 era), and the term 'hitscan' is commonly used among UT players and mappers.

                  Proving it is easy: Just go to a site like Beyond Unreal, or Epics own forums. Type 'hitscan' in the search field and you'll see we are right.
                  No offense, but just because a term is commonly used does not make it any more right or valid. For example 3 1/2 " Floppies were commonly referred to as "hard disks" too at one point as well which was as incorrect of a term as you can get or the use of the term copyprotection instead of DRM when applicable is another example.

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                  • Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
                    Just because "one" company does this doesn't make it the standard, right?
                    No, you fail twice:
                    1. The company and the community does it.
                    2. Since the UT scene does it, it makes it a standard for that scene. And we where not talking about the games in general here. We where talking about UT.

                    So, my point still stands.

                    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                    No offense, but just because a term is commonly used does not make it any more right or valid. For example 3 1/2 " Floppies were commonly referred to as "hard disks" too at one point as well which was as incorrect of a term as you can get or the use of the term copyprotection instead of DRM when applicable is another example.
                    Language history learns that language rules change conform the use of the language. This is very logical, because rules that aren't followed by anyone, are apparently useless and get scrapped. At the same time, there might be rules that everyone follows, but who aren't in the rulebooks. These rules are likely to hit the rulebook because people feel this rule is apparently necessary.

                    Your thought however isn't strange at all. These days, a lot of people try to retain their language the way it is (especially in the UK) "because rules are to be followed" usually with a cultural argument of some kind. It is also easier nowadays to do that, because we have a far better schoolsystem then we did when language was more 'evolving'. It always get's through though (yes, even in the UK ). Just think about the many ways to say something is cool. New ones always surface.

                    Another great example is the word "hacking". Many people use the word hacking or hackers, while they actually mean cracking and crackers. This mistake is so common in the Netherlands that the word hacking actually stands in the dictionary with the definition of cracking (imagine the confusion when IT people are talking to each other and one uses the English definition, while the other doesn't).
                    Last edited by MaestroMaus; 03-09-2009, 07:31 PM.

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                    • Uhm... great... looks like UT elitisms is hitting the scene. No place for me then. I prefer conducting "sane" discussions and not fanboy talk.

                      Over and out.

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                      • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                        (re: hitscan)

                        Uh... I'd not heard the term before and I've been at doing game dev for a bit now.
                        This says more about an apparent lack of familiarity with FPS on your part than it does about "hitscan" supposedly not being widely used.

                        You prove the exception obviously, but any FPS player knows what hitscan is. Lightning Gun, Rail Gun, most "bullet" firing guns in about any game (especially older ones) save stuff like Armed Assault or Stalker. It's stuff that isn't projectile based, which is to say not rockets, plasma balls, grenades or balistically modelled bullets that you have to lead with. And people in this thread are not making up that meaning for it.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan <- altar of immutable truth
                        http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Hitscan
                        http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Hitscan
                        http://nikon.bungie.org/bwu/index.html?item=182

                        But what the hell am I posting links for? Google is available to anyone.
                        Last edited by MamiyaOtaru; 03-12-2009, 04:22 AM.

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                        • Originally posted by MamiyaOtaru View Post
                          This says more about an apparent lack of familiarity with FPS on your part than it does about "hitscan" supposedly not being widely used.
                          The point I was making was that while it might be "commonly" used, not everyone lurks in the forums in the FPS crowd, etc. and it might have been something that might not have been used as a term around at least some of the people.

                          To imply that "everybody" knows it is bogus- including YOUR implication thereof.

                          And to claim that I'm unfamiliar with FPS' is mildly entertaining. Amongst other things, I did device driver development work alongside John Carmack back in the Utah-GLX driver era and I play quite a few FPS'- I just don't hang out with the fan crowd all that much and I've never heard a dev use the term before.

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                          • Good News:

                            ...since I imagine that the notice of mailing list software change will
                            spark a (well deserved) round of complaints--after all, I have been
                            largely absent from this list despite the cries for updates--I just
                            wanted to drop a note and say that the UT3 linux and mac work is still
                            ongoing. Largely we're just optimizing and fixing annoying bugs at the
                            moment.

                            No release date at the moment. Yes, I know we're already 16 months late.
                            I'm sorry, we'll get you the game as soon as we can.

                            Thanks for your eternal patience,
                            --ryan.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Odin View Post
                              Good News:
                              I'm not sure how good that news is. It is good that they intend to eventually release it. Epic has burned a whole lot of bridges with their mishandling of the situation. I remember how pissed off I got at Bioware after only a month of no client after going out and purchasing a copy of NWN on release day.

                              Fortunately I've gotten wiser with age so I generally don't purchase something based on promised support. That being said, before this I would've listed Epic as a game developer that I trusted. Now--not so much.

                              I'm one of those people who think ut99 was probably the best CTF multiplayer game ever made, and have been loyal to the franchise up until now, so I'll probably still buy the game whenever linux binaries are available. I just think the entire situation has been handled horribly and given the linux community's backlash, I wonder if this is the last of the franchise that we'll see on linux.

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                              • I'm glad about every linux client. Sure, Epic has failed to keep to their promises and they even failed in delivering a superb fast-paced next generation shooter, but in my opinion it's a good sign.

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