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  • Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
    I thought ID Software did introduce said distinction. After all you bought the game with which you bought a windows client and the right to play the game content ( and use it for modding that is ). Then you can go download the linux client ( limited support which is though okay with me ). So the client and game content had been two separate things. I know others do it differently but ID showed it works so I don't get why it is such a fuzz in the end.
    iD can do this because they own the IP but if a another company wants to port the game they would have to pay for the rights and do the work. So the only way they can earn back the money is by selling the linux version.

    If the port is done in house it's up to each company to decide how they want to do it; companies like Epic and iD charge you once for all supported OSes whereas Introvision and the guys behind Penumbra charge you once per OS (if I remember correctly).

    Think of as each OS being a different console, you buy it once for the specific console not once for all the supported consoles.

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    • To use the analogy that you use later on- you don't see people bitching about the Windows version's price of Halo/Halo2.
      No, they just didn't buy it. So how is the outcome any different?

      if someone like LGP asks publishers to release a linux-client that works with the windows-version of the game, the publishers wont care because they already sold those game-copys.
      Except for those people waiting for a Linux client to buy. No Linux binaries = no sale. Linux binaries = sale. So even if it is just binaries that are sold by the company that did the port, it translates to more sales for the original publishers/developers. Without Linux binaries, they aren't specificly selling to Linux users. With Linux binaries, they are.

      I could even imagine getting the rights to port/sell the engine without the associated game data, but which works with said data, would have cheaper license fees associated with it.

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      • Originally posted by Chris View Post
        I could even imagine getting the rights to port/sell the engine without the associated game data, but which works with said data, would have cheaper license fees associated with it.
        So you'd make people pay twice to play under linux, once for the data files and the windows engine and once for the linux engine? Very few people would go for that. Also a lot of money that you pay up front is because companies don't like people seeing the source code for their engines, so I doubt the price would be much lower. The original developers would also not go for it due to piracy as a lot of people would think "Why do I have to buy the game twice?" and pay for the linux engine and pirate the data files.

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        • Originally posted by Aradreth View Post
          So you'd make people pay twice to play under linux, once for the data files and the windows engine and once for the linux engine?
          The linux binaries would be a fraction of the price of the full game. So instead of paying more than the Windows version, you'd pay for the Windows version, then a little extra. And for people that already have the Windows version, just the little extra.

          The original developers would also not go for it due to piracy as a lot of people would think "Why do I have to buy the game twice?" and pay for the linux engine and pirate the data files.
          Still getting them (the company that ported it, and by extension the original developers who got paid by the company that ported it) more money than if people pirated the whole thing or simply didn't buy it. :P

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          • Originally posted by Chris View Post
            The linux binaries would be a fraction of the price of the full game. So instead of paying more than the Windows version, you'd pay for the Windows version, then a little extra. And for people that already have the Windows version, just the little extra.
            It wont just be a little extra as the people porting it still need to be payed, distrabute it and pay the lisencing fee's. I know what you are thinking that the engine binary could cost $5 but there is no way that would happen, you'll be paying at least $25+ for just the engine at the end unless you can find 100k+ people to buy the engine. (and lots people will either pirate the data or the engine, no one likes being charged twice for a game)

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            • I know what you are thinking that the engine binary could cost $5 but there is no way that would happen
              Actually I was thinking closer to $20. Linux versions of games ported by a third party tend to be at least $10 to $15 more than the original, so the full price for both the Windows game and Linux binaries would be roughly equal to the full Linux game.

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              • Originally posted by Chris View Post
                No, they just didn't buy it. So how is the outcome any different?
                Considering that the situation is the same and the result apparently is the same...it isn't. And the situation IS identical to the X-Box to Windows version situation. Unfortunately, you don't seem to see your thinking as a problem- you DON'T get this choice going from X-Box to Windows. Moreover, you have people bitching about the price in the case of the Linux version, either saying it's too much or they want it for free because they bought the Windows version previously. You don't get to do those things with the Halo analogy, so why should it be any different with the stuff with Linux? It's not, but people keep seeming to think it is.

                I could even imagine getting the rights to port/sell the engine without the associated game data, but which works with said data, would have cheaper license fees associated with it.
                No, it wouldn't, actually. Do you have any idea how much an engine license for, say UT3, or say Rage, will set you back?

                Think DEEP six figures and you'd have it right. This is roughly the same they'll charge you to "port the whole game" over. Engine and content are often inseperable- moreover, it may cost you at least the engine costs and THEN the game's costs.

                I'd love for it to work the way you're thinking it ought to- be a lot simpler, it would. But it doesn't work that way. Hasn't so far. And, it's not likely in the near to medium future either.

                [edit]

                To get this discussion back on the actual topic:

                Civ:CTP (First COMMERCIAL Linux Game), Alpha Centauri, Quake4, World of Padman, Tribal Trouble, Neverball, Soul Ride (It got me to GDC '03 as an unofficial 64-bit version...), Penny Arcade Adventures...lots more, but those pop up to the top off the top of my head...
                Last edited by Svartalf; 09-07-2008, 10:25 PM.

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                • Unfortunately, you don't seem to see your thinking as a problem- you DON'T get this choice going from X-Box to Windows.
                  That's exactly the problem. You DON'T. Thus, sales fell flat. If you DID, I bet sales would have been much better (though there is the technical issue of using console discs on the PC, but such wouldn't be an issue with Windows to Linux).

                  Moreover, you have people bitching about the price in the case of the Linux version, either saying it's too much or they want it for free because they bought the Windows version previously.
                  Most of the complaining I see about the price is that it's too much for the age of a mostly-unknown game. Just looking around LGP, I can't even find videos (atually that's not true; I just found one for Cold War, but would do you know.. it uses flash, which is bad enough, and doesn't even work with the Adobe player..).

                  I have no problem paying a little more than the Windows version, if it's a game that I think is worth that money. Something like Oblivion would definitely be worth that. But something I've never heard of, by a developer I know next to nothing about, is going to be much harder to sell. (it always seems to keep coming back to this problem, doesn't it?) I don't have endless amounts of money, so I have to have a pretty good idea about what I'm giving it up for, and I bet most people are the same way.

                  [edit]
                  Maybe I'm being a bit too hard on LGP. But the point still stands that I don't have endless amounts of money. And in some cases it does come down to getting a popular newish AAA game that could work in Wine, or digging around and trying to find an older title that runs natively, that I've never heard of before. Case in point are the upcoming games FarCry 2 and Legendary. Both look like they could be good fun, and as long as the previews and eventual reviews keep showing that the games are good, they'll be vying for my money just like everything else.
                  [/edit]

                  Think DEEP six figures and you'd have it right. This is roughly the same they'll charge you to "port the whole game" over. Engine and content are often inseperable- moreover, it may cost you at least the engine costs and THEN the game's costs.
                  If that's the case, then I stand corrected. Seems a bit odd though that the fees for getting the rights to publish the IP associated with the game (sans engine) amounts to that little.
                  Last edited by Chris; 09-08-2008, 02:42 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by Chris View Post
                    That's exactly the problem. You DON'T. Thus, sales fell flat. If you DID, I bet sales would have been much better (though there is the technical issue of using console discs on the PC, but such wouldn't be an issue with Windows to Linux).
                    Halo didn't sell well on the PC for several other reasons, the first one was released for the PC almost 2 years after it was released on the xbox, the people that wanted to play it by then had played it so why would they go out and buy it again? As for halo 2 it was vista only nothing more really needs to be said.

                    Originally posted by Chris View Post
                    If that's the case, then I stand corrected. Seems a bit odd though that the fees for getting the rights to publish the IP associated with the game (sans engine) amounts to that little.
                    The money for the paid for the IP with a percentage of the earnings. the upfront fee is just so you can see the code.
                    Just so you can see how much money it costs the unreal engine 2 lisence which isn't even a cutting edge engine like UE3 or iD tech 4
                    A non-refundable, non-recoupable license fee is due on execution of the agreement. The cost is US $350,000 for one of the available Unreal Engine 2 platforms, plus US $50,000 for each additional platform. A royalty of 3% is due on all revenue from the game, calculated on the wholesale price of the product minus (for console SKUs) console manufacturer fees. In the case of massive-multiplayer online games, the royalty is also due on the additional forms of revenue including subscriptions and advertisements.

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                    • And that last post, more than anything else, explains why a "serious" run at at Paradox Engine is such a coup!

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                      • Originally posted by Aradreth View Post
                        Halo didn't sell well on the PC for several other reasons, the first one was released for the PC almost 2 years after it was released on the xbox, the people that wanted to play it by then had played it so why would they go out and buy it again?
                        Exactly. They already bought it, so why would they want to buy it again? If they only needed to pay 10 or 15 bucks (since MS can get away with cheap) to get it to run on the PC, more people would have paid that for a more enjoyable experience for a game they already had (in the case of Halo because PCs kick the pants off consoles for FPSs).

                        EDIT:
                        Just so you can see how much money it costs the unreal engine 2 lisence which isn't even a cutting edge engine like UE3 or iD tech 4
                        By contrast, there's Unigine which is more on par with the likes of UE3 and the Crysis engine (and has a native Linux port, btw):
                        Binary Indie* - $15 000+$35 000
                        Source Indie* - $20 000+$55 000
                        Binary - $50 000
                        Source - $75 000

                        Updates are provided no matter what version number of Unigine will be released. Thus there will be no need in any additional payments to upgrade to further versions during this period.
                        *: "Indie" licenses are available for small independent studios only. The first part of the price is an initial payment, the second one is to be paid after getting funding from any kind of investor or before official release of the Unigine-based product.
                        Last edited by Chris; 09-08-2008, 03:57 PM.

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                        • One of the reasons I'm into my engine project... these prices are just insane for any indie out there <.=.<

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                          • Back on Topic:

                            Savage2
                            Sauerbraten
                            Battle for Wesnoth
                            FretsonFire

                            ET:QuakeWars too but I have not really played that much lately.

                            Is there still anyone playing Quake4 MP? Haven't checked in ages.
                            Last edited by Julius; 09-10-2008, 10:22 PM.

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                            • The Battle for Wesnoth
                              Secret Maryo Chronicles
                              Various emulators (SDLmame, ZSNES etc)

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                              • Originally posted by Chris View Post
                                By contrast, there's Unigine which is more on par with the likes of UE3 and the Crysis engine (and has a native Linux port, btw):
                                Unfortunately, all the titles you mention that you want don't USE Unigine that I know of. (Seriously, enlighten us over in the wishlist thread- I'd love to add anyone that might be a win for us over there into the "looking into" list.)

                                If they did, it'd be less of an uphill battle getting them- much like you'd think it'd be.

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