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  • Any update on Steam?

    Hi,
    Some months ago, Michael said that Valve was porting the Source engine into Linux.

    Is there any update on that?

  • #2
    So far I heard nothing about it. Looks to me currently more like hype than something substantial but you never now. That said... Source on Linux would be good but Steam on Linux... that would be tragic.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
      So far I heard nothing about it. Looks to me currently more like hype than something substantial but you never now. That said... Source on Linux would be good but Steam on Linux... that would be tragic.
      tragic? why is that?

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      • #4
        I'm guessing two possibilities to Dragonlord's hesitation.

        1: This would bring DRM to the Linux platform. This is essentially the almost opposite ideology of the community, that it should be with no strings attached.
        2: The same reason publishers say "use WINE" would stand for steam. No need to develop a native application when they can just develop the game for Steam.

        Not to say that Steam wouldn't be a bad thing for the Linux gaming scene.
        Last edited by me262; 08-26-2008, 11:08 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Extreme Coder View Post
          tragic? why is that?
          The current anti-DRM stance. Of which, I agree with- but it's a problem of us tilting at too many things at once, in my opinion.

          Which do you want?

          Games on Linux?
          No DRM whatsoever?

          Choose one or the other, but you can't have both right at this time- it's just not going to happen. Moreover, if you have the first, you can be in a position to get them to wise up about the other, but you're not going to get the other from the second position unless all the Windows, MacOS, and Console sales all dry up as a result of DRM being in the mix.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by me262 View Post
            1: This would bring DRM to the Linux platform. This is essentially the almost opposite ideology of the community, that it should be with no strings attached.
            This is the likely position, really, because...

            2: The same reason publishers say "use WINE" would stand for steam. No need to develop a native application when they can just develop the game for Steam.
            Steam is a content delivery and DRM platform- nothing else. If you make Steam for Linux, you need to have winelib or pure native titles to run under it. Steam won't make WINE like translation layers for you.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
              The current anti-DRM stance. Of which, I agree with- but it's a problem of us tilting at too many things at once, in my opinion.

              Which do you want?

              Games on Linux?
              No DRM whatsoever?

              Choose one or the other, but you can't have both right at this time- it's just not going to happen. Moreover, if you have the first, you can be in a position to get them to wise up about the other, but you're not going to get the other from the second position unless all the Windows, MacOS, and Console sales all dry up as a result of DRM being in the mix.
              If i may disagree, I think you can have both. Or at least a different kind of DRM. One that isnt really DRM. Im working on such a workaround.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                Steam is a content delivery and DRM platform- nothing else.
                Exactly - it's an application, and although I have issues with DRM in general, calling home with a CD key is a pretty non-intrusive way of doing it if you must.

                I think it'd be a huge benefit to see non-Windows platforms represented in Valve's software/hardware surveys though, where Wine has traditionally masked them

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Extreme Coder View Post
                  tragic? why is that?
                  Forgetting the DRM for a moment i should say that on my system it uses *tons* of RAM and that it has caused me several headaches:
                  - back when I got a 56KB connection I spent more than 2 hours to get my original Half Life 2 copy to install;
                  - it crashes and burns from time to time (well, roughly 20% of the times);
                  - another time I wanted to start HL2 after more than a year I didn't played it Steam gave me a weird error that prevented the game to update. And if you don't update you can't play. I had to search the forums, delete some configuration files, reboot, dance, swim, pray, start steam, update, start half life, wait 3 minutes and then I can finally play.

                  Pleasing experience all in all...

                  So I personally rate Steam as one of the best crapware™ ever shipped by a software house (just after Windows ME and before the Norton Antivirus "make my Athlon XP behave like a 386" version).

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                  • #10
                    Still, you have to admit that Steam on Linux would mean a lot of games for Linux, which we really need ATM And it would convince other publishers to make Linux games..

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by panda84 View Post
                      - back when I got a 56KB connection I spent more than 2 hours to get my original Half Life 2 copy to install;
                      This is problem one with Steam, or any other online delivery system.

                      The stuff only really works when you've got something resembling broadband- and ISDN/IDSL doesn't count... Dialup breaks a lot of things upon the wheel because most developers when they do network-centric stuff don't take into account evil latencies and other similar problems when you talk dialup or slow always-on connections.

                      - another time I wanted to start HL2 after more than a year I didn't played it Steam gave me a weird error that prevented the game to update. And if you don't update you can't play. I had to search the forums, delete some configuration files, reboot, dance, swim, pray, start steam, update, start half life, wait 3 minutes and then I can finally play.
                      Most of this was because of a bug combined with your being on dialup. The problem would probably have taken seconds on a high-speed link. Note, this is not excusing it or me not agreeing with you that it was a seriously crappy experience- Valve ought to do better than they did there with it. One should ALWAYS test something like this with dialup and find problems like the ones you encountered.

                      So I personally rate Steam as one of the best crapware™ ever shipped by a software house (just after Windows ME and before the Norton Antivirus "make my Athlon XP behave like a 386" version).
                      Heh... Vista rates as the absolute best crapware™ ever shipped in my book. It's even more craptacular than Norton or ME ever could of drempt of- it's just that not everyone has twigged on to just how bad it really is yet- YET.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                        Heh... Vista rates as the absolute best crapware™ ever shipped in my book. It's even more craptacular than Norton or ME ever could of drempt of- it's just that not everyone has twigged on to just how bad it really is yet- YET.
                        Sorry but MS BOB is the worst crapware™ ever.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                          Sorry but MS BOB is the worst crapware™ ever.
                          Heh... I might buy that line of thought...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Extreme Coder
                            tragic? why is that?
                            As mentioned DRM and other things... I'll elaborate.

                            Originally posted by Svartalf
                            Choose one or the other, but you can't have both right at this time- it's just not going to happen. Moreover, if you have the first, you can be in a position to get them to wise up about the other, but you're not going to get the other from the second position unless all the Windows, MacOS, and Console sales all dry up as a result of DRM being in the mix.
                            It's true that both at the same time is a problem but there is one problem with your solution. Once they have Linux with DRM do you really think they step down and weaken or even remove the DRM over time? Sorry, I'm a realist in this situation and I predict that if this happens DRM will be thightened more and more until the Linux people like the Windows ones stop buying and pirating like it happens right now on Windows. If let DRM into the system it's like a cancer... you are never ever going to evict it from the system anymore. Money rules... and kills :O

                            Originally posted by xav1r
                            If i may disagree, I think you can have both. Or at least a different kind of DRM. One that isnt really DRM. Im working on such a workaround.
                            Mind elaborating? I spend quite some time thinking about this DRM mess on Linux while working on my game engine especially since some potential users stated concerns in this direction. Now over the course of all my thinkings and mind-testing I came to the conclusion that ( for SP only ) there exists no DRM system that is not crackable but still annoys ( or let's say criminalize ) the legit customer. If somebody comes up with a solution that works, be my guest, but so far I'm positive it's not possible.

                            Originally posted by panda84
                            Pleasing experience all in all...
                            Double this. I can confirm these troubles with flat rate and broadband so it is NOT a dial up only problem but a general one. That said steam is annoying to work with. I've been involved in a beta ( and had some chats with devs since I'm in the same boat ) and the system had been rather hostile to a solid beta testing and bug hunting. This started with update dramas and ended up with random crashes which could not been reproduced since steam simply fucked something up somewhere in the pipeline. Support they said from the side of Valve is good but the delivery platform is shit. Anyways... I had also to deal with the Source SDK once for making some modding tool ( god knows why I had been so stupid to EVER ACCEPTED THIS TASK!!! ) and steam had been the biggest rock on the road. Not only did it notoriously break my SDK installation it also randomly rejected to run it at all ( crowning the madness with a crash right after complaining ). Yeah... < sarcasm >the experiences with steam are really very pleasant < / sarcasm > <.=.<

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                              Heh... Vista rates as the absolute best crapware™ ever shipped in my book. It's even more craptacular than Norton or ME ever could of drempt of- it's just that not everyone has twigged on to just how bad it really is yet- YET.
                              Oh yeah, nearly forgot. Of course this one is the king of crapiness. Against this Steam is a saint

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