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  • Originally posted by Thetargos View Post
    Wow is like if they DIDN'T want others licensing their engines, as the license fee is not enough and ask for revenue!
    That's why I kept going on and on in other threads about my position on this subject. I'm not going to get started again on that subject (and would ask people to try to do much the same...) because I'm not gunning for that in this thread/project- nor am I trying to "fix" parts of the very broken scheme of things as they are now by trying to sell things cheaper, etc.

    I may get stoned for this, but it looks like there needs to be a shift in paradigm regarding games, at least. I looks like the traditional model of developer-publisher (which in the end the tendency seems to be publishers owning studios), studios would be better off cutting the man in the middle and selling directly (I know I may be talking foot in mouth), but it does seem as if those responsible selling the games refuse to do so despite how positive towards Linux the studio might be.
    Heh... What do you think part of the objectives is for this thread?

    Grousing about not selling isn't going to fix things.
    Grousing about not advertising isn't going to fix things.
    Grousing about people not getting AAA titles isn't going to fix things.

    Those all require much, much more cash than I think anybody right at the moment in the Linux space can muster appropriately.

    I'm proposing working at trying to change the game- because it's very most definitely gotten taken over, in the large, by the same crowd that's screwed up all that's fubared in the music and movie businesses.

    Comment


    • I just remembered one game I had lots and lots of fun playing. I really enjoyed it and while it runs almost flawless in Wine, a native client, maybe with revamped graphics would be (IMO) awesome. I'm talking about Anachronox, developed by Ion Storm and published by Eidos Interactive. I do believe that Ion Storm was bought by another publisher. And I do not know who might have the source for the game, or if it might be complete.

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      • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
        Are you talking 10k users? If you're not, you're not talking large enough numbers for them to CARE. Honest. The money involved catering to a couple thousand doesn't outweigh the expenses involved otherwise.
        Most games are getting Mac ports these days, so the hard work (DX->OpenGL) is already done. As an aside, though, it also boggles me why developers stick with platform dependant APIs (eg. DirectX) for solely this reason. Using cross-platform APIs broadens your target audience significantly for no extra work (and even without explicit ports, such things help the game run better under Wine/Cedega/CrossOver).

        But speaking numbers, Wine's userbase is quite large (some estimates put it around a couple million, IIRC). Not all of it is for gaming of course, but I'd wager a sizeable portion is. TransGaming, who sell Cedega, basically advertises as a gaming-enhanced version of Wine. Codeweavers, who sell CrossOver and help fund Wine development, also does quite well. So, there are quite a few users here a publisher can sell to. But of course, we need a good game.. not many people will buy decade-old ports of games no one has heard of or cared about. The few older games that stand the test of time (eg. Morrowind) will do better, but the fresher a popular game is in the minds of gamers (Oblivion, Prey, etc) the better chances of it getting sold.

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        • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          Please refrain from filling up the thread with mass cut and pastes- a LINK will suffice here.
          Done.

          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          I would ask that you try to keep further posts on topic.
          No problem. I answered your post in the first thread, feel free not answering it.

          It would be nice though if you could apply this request to your own comments :

          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          I would ask that you try to keep further posts on topic.
          and :
          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          Everyone, this is part of WHY LGP can't arrange deals where you talk about "selling it for 'half price'"
          or
          Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
          Grousing about not advertising isn't going to fix things.
          (edit : snipped)
          Those all require much, much more cash than I think anybody right at the moment in the Linux space can muster appropriately.
          Originally posted by Svartalf
          Complaining about not selling isn't going to get you anywhere- because advertising, etc. costs lots of money.
          Because comments like that (disregarding what people have already adressed) are the reasons this topic can go OT, and you're just starting it.

          Edit : keep them comming
          Last edited by miles; 06-30-2008, 04:30 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
            Heh... Both are COOL AAA titles from the looks of things. Ubisoft's not openly hostile to Linux right at the moment- so it's not a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately, the song and dance about AAA titles costing a pretty penny is very, very real and unless you have sales numbers or a LOT of cash, I don't know if these are at all doable.
            Well yeah but the first game is quite old now(2003). It would also probably make a good test for the publisher to see how that will go to maybe look into porting the new game as well.
            BTW what about stardock? or have looked into that already?
            Also Ion Storm ws a subsidiary of Eidos and i suspect it's them that have the rights. Dunno if they have the code though obviously. And since Ion Storm was mentioned. Deus Ex would be cool(wasn't Loki making this before they folded?)

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            • Originally posted by Chris View Post
              Most games are getting Mac ports these days, so the hard work (DX->OpenGL) is already done.
              Heh... Preaching to the choir there.

              But speaking numbers, Wine's userbase is quite large (some estimates put it around a couple million, IIRC). Not all of it is for gaming of course, but I'd wager a sizeable portion is. TransGaming, who sell Cedega, basically advertises as a gaming-enhanced version of Wine. Codeweavers, who sell CrossOver and help fund Wine development, also does quite well. So, there are quite a few users here a publisher can sell to.
              Indeed. The biggest problem would be the end-results of the Loki and a few other things. We don't have a good sales metric- the WINE figures are not for SALES, but for estimated userbase. Again, SALES are what they care about, not potential ones...

              But of course, we need a good game.. not many people will buy decade-old ports of games no one has heard of or cared about. The few older games that stand the test of time (eg. Morrowind) will do better, but the fresher a popular game is in the minds of gamers (Oblivion, Prey, etc) the better chances of it getting sold.
              The problem lies in that the games "nobody heard about" are the only ones that the studio or publisher will give you reasonable rates on right at the moment for the large part- and the stuff "everybody wants", they more often than not want silly large amounts of cash on in the class of 6 figures just to make the port happen.

              Anyhow, this isn't a yet another discussion about what's busted and how one would fix it if you've got the cash. This is about getting some traction that gets their attention or to completely change the rules of the game. I'm for either.

              Complaining about not having them isn't going to get you anywhere.
              Complaining about not selling isn't going to get you anywhere- because advertising, etc. costs lots of money.
              Complaining about the age of stuff isn't going to get you anywhere.

              Changing the rules, however, may do so. That's really what this discussion thread is about.

              Back to the topic of discussion... In the case of Beyond Good and Evil, I think it's not a foregone conclusion and we might be able to at least START a discussion on the subject with Ubisoft. But... (always one in there, isn't there?) I honestly want to set people's expectations. We've (the Linux community as a whole...) already spurned a few titles that were segways into getting that sort of deal or getting them to give us the time of day for serious with the first in the franchise.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                I'm proposing working at trying to change the game- because it's very most definitely gotten taken over, in the large, by the same crowd that's screwed up all that's fubared in the music and movie businesses.
                Actually that's what I had in mind when I was thinking about this. It is easy to spot the need for a publisher from a studio when you have into account what's needed for the sales (advertisement, storage, handling, shipping, etc, etc). Taking Valve as an example and their on-line distribution (and how this model has been adopted by many more publishers and developers), it would be safe to assume, at least direct on-line sales from studios is now possible (given broad band penetration and costs associated), not to mention that they can now be in full control over the mechanisms.

                That still doesn't account for the advertisement which would also mean a huge amount of money, however taking matters into their own hands, developers can now decide how much resources are destined to advertisement, etc. I know that even cutting this man in the middle, the amount of money required is enormous. I wonder if a campaign of donations would accomplish anything (maybe worth exploring the idea).

                Comment


                • Originally posted by miles View Post
                  It would be nice though if you could apply this request to your own comments :
                  Heh... I'm trying to clip it off, sir (Please note in most of these I'm trying to get people to get back on track in my comments...)- several people brought in asides and I'm trying to herd all the cats back on topic. You peppering things isn't going to help, k?

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                  • Originally posted by Thetargos View Post
                    I know that even cutting this man in the middle, the amount of money required is enormous. I wonder if a campaign of donations would accomplish anything (maybe worth exploring the idea).
                    That's why people have been warned that we may need to pass a hat around on some of this.

                    The only concern is that you have money changing hands with the specific expectation for getting something for it- if you don't succeed for any reason, you have to return the money. It's messy.

                    I honestly need to go back through, edit the main post as well as summarize at the tail end what the list looks like so far and start wending through a few of the suggestions to see what we can manage out of the current suggestion crop.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      That's why people have been warned that we may need to pass a hat around on some of this.

                      The only concern is that you have money changing hands with the specific expectation for getting something for it- if you don't succeed for any reason, you have to return the money. It's messy.
                      Not forgetting the accusations of stealing the money if you are unable to return it as it's been spent legitimately. As well as the actual risk of someone doing a runner of course, I mean the amount need to port a game would make it tempting for a lot of people.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Chris View Post
                        Most games are getting Mac ports these days, so the hard work (DX->OpenGL) is already done. As an aside, though, it also boggles me why developers stick with platform dependant APIs (eg. DirectX) for solely this reason. Using cross-platform APIs broadens your target audience significantly for no extra work (and even without explicit ports, such things help the game run better under Wine/Cedega/CrossOver).
                        AFAIK Apple has poured quite a LOT of money (we are talking in the order of 1 mill per game) for getting more games into the platform. Jobs is no fool and knows that gaming is a big reason why Microsoft still has such a big edge.

                        Originally posted by Chris
                        But speaking numbers, Wine's userbase is quite large (some estimates put it around a couple million, IIRC). Not all of it is for gaming of course, but I'd wager a sizeable portion is. TransGaming, who sell Cedega, basically advertises as a gaming-enhanced version of Wine. Codeweavers, who sell CrossOver and help fund Wine development, also does quite well. So, there are quite a few users here a publisher can sell to. But of course, we need a good game.. not many people will buy decade-old ports of games no one has heard of or cared about. The few older games that stand the test of time (eg. Morrowind) will do better, but the fresher a popular game is in the minds of gamers (Oblivion, Prey, etc) the better chances of it getting sold.
                        I have actually given this a lot of thought. TransGaming has been kept in business thanks to Linux gamers willing to buy this software to be able to play Windows games on Linux, and MacOS. Based on the number of subscribers of Transgaming, it would be clear that Linux gaming IS profitable, certainly there are more than 10k users interested on getting these games ported.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                          That's why people have been warned that we may need to pass a hat around on some of this.

                          The only concern is that you have money changing hands with the specific expectation for getting something for it- if you don't succeed for any reason, you have to return the money. It's messy.

                          I honestly need to go back through, edit the main post as well as summarize at the tail end what the list looks like so far and start wending through a few of the suggestions to see what we can manage out of the current suggestion crop.
                          But that's what a donation strategy would be useful for. Donation money doesn't have to be returned, not necessarily, at least. The problem would be that the donation petition would have to be extremely clear in terms of what would the money be used for and how. And the compromise to update donors with the deals their money have enabled, etc... I'm sure something will be eventually written that might satisfy most of the target audience... There's of course the issue of promoting this as well.

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                          • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            The only concern is that you have money changing hands with the specific expectation for getting something for it- if you don't succeed for any reason, you have to return the money. It's messy.
                            Which is why I was suggesting looking for games where the initial costs are minimal. If you keep the day job, the cash demands should be minimal, you are just risking no payout on the time investment...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Thetargos View Post
                              I don't exactly understand what you mean here, but I liked the game. I haven't played it a LOT since I'm still going through a second run through The Awakening, however I do like what they have done with the story. I had my doubts at first as well, but it turned out (at least in my very personal opinion) to be a rather nice game.
                              Well, being somewhat interested in the Lupin lore, this naturally piqued my interest. But I'd like to know how the game mechanics work. I'm always looking to dissect games and look what innovations were done. So, I'm interested to see how the game plays, what you do in the game... etc.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by niniendowarrior View Post
                                Well, being somewhat interested in the Lupin lore, this naturally piqued my interest. But I'd like to know how the game mechanics work. I'm always looking to dissect games and look what innovations were done. So, I'm interested to see how the game plays, what you do in the game... etc.
                                Ok, let me prepare a full review on the game, then. It may take me a while since I currently am away from home and I don't have the game on my laptop. When I get back and have access to my main rig, I'll start working on it.

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