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  • Also, there are many STEAM users that are extremely frustrated because they can't play the games they bought.
    Thats perhaps 0.1% of all STEAM users, I guess - otherwise, VALVe wouldn't still exist..

    I don't want to protect STEAM in any way, but.. do you think, others are better? Doom3 connects to the id Servers every time you start the game - do you know what informations are transmitted? Of course, you can say, that you can pull the RJ45 cable - first, it's not a nice solution, second, when you want to play online you need to be online. If you "analyse" that, and compare it with STEAM, I think that you come to the conclusion, that it's nearly the same. Ok, doom3 is more "inconspicuous".
    But as long as you want to play online, you have some kind of "DRM" (except the producer astains mechanisms like that, but.. who is he able to prove that? Open sourcing the code?) - sometimes more importunate (STEAM), sometimes weaker (for instance d3). In the end, it's always the same: Don't like, don't play...

    Sry for my english..


    Btw.. xav1r: Do you really think that securom can't phone home? I'd like to read an explanation.. I even have to admit that I prefer STEAM over "software" like for instance starforce. DRM versus rootkit - I definately prefer the former, though, I'd NEVER buy DRMed music / videos.
    Last edited by Dragonix; 08-13-2008, 06:33 PM.

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    • Wrong... DRM IS a root kit since M$ wants to build it tightly into the OS or even the BIOS if possible. No difference between the two.

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      • Originally posted by Dragonix View Post
        Thats perhaps 0.1% of all STEAM users, I guess - otherwise, VALVe wouldn't still exist..

        I don't want to protect STEAM in any way, but.. do you think, others are better? Doom3 connects to the id Servers every time you start the game - do you know what informations are transmitted? Of course, you can say, that you can pull the RJ45 cable - first, it's not a nice solution, second, when you want to play online you need to be online. If you "analyse" that, and compare it with STEAM, I think that you come to the conclusion, that it's nearly the same. Ok, doom3 is more "inconspicuous".
        But as long as you want to play online, you have some kind of "DRM" (except the producer astains mechanisms like that, but.. who is he able to prove that? Open sourcing the code?) - sometimes more importunate (STEAM), sometimes weaker (for instance d3). In the end, it's always the same: Don't like, don't play...

        Sry for my english..


        Btw.. xav1r: Do you really think that securom can't phone home? I'd like to read an explanation.. I even have to admit that I prefer STEAM over "software" like for instance starforce. DRM versus rootkit - I definately prefer the former, though, I'd NEVER buy DRMed music / videos.
        Well, im not an expert on DRM technology, but from what i've seen, on my windows computers, securom "protected" games create a directory in the application data folder in the documents and settings directory commonly known as My documents, and creates a entry in the windows registry. To delete them both, you need to download a program freely available on the web, and it takes like 20 seconds to get rid of both. I've noticed too, that after both securom entries are removed, the game continues to play normally. But i havent noticed any remote connections being established that i dont know about, my firewall hasnt detected any.

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        • Originally posted by Dragonix View Post
          ...
          Doom3 connects to the id Servers every time you start the game - do you know what informations are transmitted?
          ...
          You can firewall Doom3 so it never connects, and it won't mind. I finished Quake 4 like that. Their DRM at least will not block you from playing.

          I agree that for Online play you need to allow it in the firewall, but then... any online game has to "phone home" eventually, so at least YOU KNOW it is doing that, and you still have some control over it.

          For LAN play... you should be able to remove Internet access from those computers.

          Not ideal, but if you CANNOT use the software you paid for, that's when it becomes really wrong! (At least in my opinion)

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          • Isn't this what we have already? Play STEAM games without being online? No way! Which is a bit fucked up by the way that you have to be online to play a fucking single player game ( erm... WTF?! ).

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            • Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
              Isn't this what we have already? Play STEAM games without being online? No way! Which is a bit fucked up by the way that you have to be online to play a fucking single player game ( erm... WTF?! ).
              That was my point somewhere between the lines.
              If you want to play Doom 3 or Quake 4 single player, you don't have to be online.

              But STEAM is bad (and I don't use it) because you first need to connect if you want to play. If you can't connect (your internet is down that day) you can't play STEAM games, but you can still play Doom 3

              There IS a difference.

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              • Well, doom3 and quake4, actually all id tech 4 games require you to verify online before doing anything, playing offline included. As said above, you can firewall it, or add the id host addresses to the host file and prevent them from checking, but that keeps you from going online. Its annoying. Their previous games, the quake3 based ones, didnt give you any trouble until you tried to play online, and even didnt boot you out to the desktop if the CDKEY wasnt valid.

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                • Originally posted by xav1r View Post
                  Well, doom3 and quake4, actually all id tech 4 games require you to verify online before doing anything, playing offline included.
                  ...
                  then i might have mistaken... been a while

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                  • Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
                    Isn't this what we have already? Play STEAM games without being online? No way! Which is a bit fucked up by the way that you have to be online to play a fucking single player game ( erm... WTF?! ).
                    Originally posted by Alecz View Post
                    But STEAM is bad (and I don't use it) because you first need to connect if you want to play. If you can't connect (your internet is down that day) you can't play STEAM games

                    Guys: I realize I'm walking into this conversation late, but it's obvious - neither of you, nor many of the other authors I've seen in this thread, own or use Steam.

                    Steam DOES allow you to play single-player games without being connected to the internet. It's called "offline-mode", and it warns you about it any time you start Steam and aren't on the net.

                    https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...3160-AGCB-2555

                    I run Steam under Wine all the time and have never had a problem playing HL2 or CS:S by myself when in offline mode.

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                    • Originally posted by 3vi1 View Post
                      Guys: I realize I'm walking into this conversation late, but it's obvious - neither of you, nor many of the other authors I've seen in this thread, own or use Steam.

                      Steam DOES allow you to play single-player games without being connected to the internet. It's called "offline-mode", and it warns you about it any time you start Steam and aren't on the net.

                      https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...3160-AGCB-2555

                      I run Steam under Wine all the time and have never had a problem playing HL2 or CS:S by myself when in offline mode.
                      ++
                      STEAM is actually really good and I hope the rumours that there is going to be a linux-native client are true. STEAM allows you to play offline without any problems

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