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Sacred: Gold Enters Beta On Linux

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  • #16
    Heh-heh. Good thing you've replied, as I've seen your other posts and wanted to ask you: are you working for LGP?

    Porting old games to Linux and then charging a ton for them is useless and is not helping anybody in any way.

    There are titles exclusively for Wii, XBox or PS3. If you want to really help, make the next great game on Linux and tie it to something available only here, for example.

    Or make open-source games and people will stop complaining.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ibo2008 View Post
      Heh-heh. Good thing you've replied, as I've seen your other posts and wanted to ask you: are you working for LGP?

      Porting old games to Linux and then charging a ton for them is useless and is not helping anybody in any way.

      There are titles exclusively for Wii, XBox or PS3. If you want to really help, make the next great game on Linux and tie it to something available only here, for example.

      Or make open-source games and people will stop complaining.
      Open-sourcing isn't financially viable with games, unlike linux and other enterprise aimed open-source programs selling support would make you almost nothing.

      As for the other points they been discussed to death just look for the answers.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ibo2008 View Post
        Porting old games to Linux and then charging a ton for them is useless and is not helping anybody in any way.
        ... and I suppose you think porting a game is cheap? I think Svartalf know this and can explain it way better than me, but there's quite a lot of expenses that need to be covered. Comparing the price of the Linux-version to the current price of the Windows-version is quite unfair. In Linux-world it's a brand new game where you still need to cover your expenses, while in Windows-world it's an old game that already have paid of and therefore don't need to cover development costs. There's quite a difference between selling the last copies of a game cheap, and selling the first copies of a brand new game. The first can be done at about the cost of the CD/DVD, packaging and shipping while the latter also need to cover stuff like developing, royalty etc.

        If you think it's useless I guess you're missing the point here. It's making another game available in Linux, and also creating a marked for games in Linux.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by AHSauge View Post
          ... and I suppose you think porting a game is cheap? I think Svartalf know this and can explain it way better than me, but there's quite a lot of expenses that need to be covered. Comparing the price of the Linux-version to the current price of the Windows-version is quite unfair. In Linux-world it's a brand new game where you still need to cover your expenses, while in Windows-world it's an old game that already have paid of and therefore don't need to cover development costs. There's quite a difference between selling the last copies of a game cheap, and selling the first copies of a brand new game. The first can be done at about the cost of the CD/DVD, packaging and shipping while the latter also need to cover stuff like developing, royalty etc.

          If you think it's useless I guess you're missing the point here. It's making another game available in Linux, and also creating a marked for games in Linux.
          it's been explained several times already see http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9641 I can't be bothered to find the relevant posts atm but I might later and if I do I've edit this post to include the links

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
            And congrats on seeing to it that you won't see any major titles on Linux for some time to come.

            Each time you buy a Windows SKU, even in the bargain bin like you're proposing, is a vote for making more Windows software. Do you run Windows or Linux? If the answer is Linux, why, pray tell, would you buy software not designed for your OS? Because you can run it under WINE? Heh... You're not their customer and the moment they decide to do something that fixes a problem on their customer's machines and breaks it running under WINE, you're going to be SOL- because they make Windows software instead of WINE software.

            Publishers and studios go off of sales figures, not "installed base"- as long as they think there's no money to be had (and you just proved this just now with your post...) with a Linux version and they can make money by making half-assed Windows versions, they're going to do it.

            Keep bitching about price, nobody wants to buy, etc. folks- you all that're doing the bitching are the reason we're in the mess we're in.
            I couldn't have said it better myself.

            I only game in Linux... this is a new game for me. I don't care when it came out for Windows or what the cost is for Windows today. LGP makes games for Linux gamers & have to pay employees to port it, plus license the code to the game they are porting. People should try to remember this more often.

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            • #21
              Even when some people say it's a new game for them, it is in fact not and so I'm still seeing the problem with the price.

              Look at Savage 2. That is what I call a quite new game and it costs 30 dollars.

              I of course won't say that "old" titles aren't fun to play, but thouse 4 years (!) won't go out of my head that quick.

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              • #22
                Heh... Aradreth...I'll save you the trouble...

                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=44
                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=61
                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=64
                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=67
                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=74
                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=79
                http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=87

                If you don't understand WHY things are the way they are in the Linux side of the Games Industry, you should honestly read those links (Well, the whole thread, really...but the main take-aways are in those links...).

                I am NOT someone to be telling people "buy this and like it", but I keep saying this over and over, trying (and thankfully reaching in most cases...) to reach out to people and get them to grok that they're NOT helping themselves in the slightest when they go and do things like rant about the prices, etc.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by M1AU View Post
                  Look at Savage 2. That is what I call a quite new game and it costs 30 dollars.
                  And can you buy Savage2 on the store shelves? No? There's a reason why you can get it for $30- it's because you basically have to download it and they have sole rights on the thing.

                  The packaging, royalties owed for production of the derivative work, the royalties paid to get the right to produce the derivative work end up being owed- it's not a free ride.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                    And can you buy Savage2 on the store shelves? No? There's a reason why you can get it for $30- it's because you basically have to download it and they have sole rights on the thing.

                    The packaging, royalties owed for production of the derivative work, the royalties paid to get the right to produce the derivative work end up being owed- it's not a free ride.
                    I've actually wondered why LGP/Runesoft hasn't gone for a download model yet especially seeing as if you run Linux you pretty much have to have broadband as you can't buy many programs of the shelf. Don't get me wrong I prefer having the box and would always choose it over a download version but the money that could be saved would probably be extremely beneficial (lower prices/higher profits/smaller loss if the game tanks/etc).

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                      And can you buy Savage2 on the store shelves? No? There's a reason why you can get it for $30- it's because you basically have to download it and they have sole rights on the thing.

                      The packaging, royalties owed for production of the derivative work, the royalties paid to get the right to produce the derivative work end up being owed- it's not a free ride.
                      That's good for me. To be honest I also can't buy LGPs games on the store shelves, at least I didn't saw any.

                      As I didn't bought a game from them yet (I guess you know why), do they offer a download service or do they only just ship a boxed version of them? I really don't know?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Aradreth View Post
                        I've actually wondered why LGP/Runesoft hasn't gone for a download model yet especially seeing as if you run Linux you pretty much have to have broadband as you can't buy many programs of the shelf. Don't get me wrong I prefer having the box and would always choose it over a download version but the money that could be saved would probably be extremely beneficial (lower prices/higher profits/smaller loss if the game tanks/etc).
                        Bandwidth's still a bit of a problem for things.

                        Downloading a CD's worth is close to the pain level people will put up with.

                        Savage2: ~700Mb
                        Penny Arcade Adv: ~150-170Mb (Can't remember precisely...)
                        Tribal Trouble: ~25-45Mb (ditto...)

                        Anything more and it becomes unpleasant. At the CD threshold, it becomes painful. Moreover, you need real bandwidth to deliver it. S2 Games does it because it was in their publishing plan- and they beefed up the server resources accordingly. That doesn't come cheap- I certainly wouldn't be risking a commitment needed to make that sort of thing economical on what we've been seeing the uptake on Linux games in the past. I'm dead certain that LGP doesn't have the T3+ needed to do that sort of thing at it's disposal (I've got decent portion of that class of connection with my FiOS service, but I think I'm the only one with a business grade connection like that- and I would certainly NOT be serving up this sort of stuff from my house's server and network plant...).

                        If we had better sales, perhaps. If the market was more like what Valve could support with Steam, perhaps.

                        [edit: Upgraded the pain level metric for Savage2...]
                        Last edited by Svartalf; 06-23-2008, 02:21 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by M1AU View Post
                          That's good for me. To be honest I also can't buy LGPs games on the store shelves, at least I didn't saw any.
                          Indeed. But you get a physical copy when you buy in the case of the LGP titles (Boy, I could only WISH that we had brick-and-mortar sales more tied down; it'd make this fight a bit easier than it currently is...). The royalties, as I've indicated, would still be there- so the price would be a bit more than $30 even if there was a download-only option.

                          As I didn't bought a game from them yet (I guess you know why), do they offer a download service or do they only just ship a boxed version of them? I really don't know?
                          Right now, boxed only. Downloads on most of the current catalog would be...painful...for the reasons I gave Aradreth just now.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            Indeed. But you get a physical copy when you buy in the case of the LGP titles (Boy, I could only WISH that we had brick-and-mortar sales more tied down; it'd make this fight a bit easier than it currently is...). The royalties, as I've indicated, would still be there- so the price would be a bit more than $30 even if there was a download-only option.



                            Right now, boxed only. Downloads on most of the current catalog would be...painful...for the reasons I gave Aradreth just now.
                            That's unfortunate.

                            Even though, in my opinion LGP should really consider adjusting there sales model quite abit.
                            I personally really like the sales model of S2 Games or Introversion Software. Well they both are game developing studios and so they're quite different, but especially Introversion Software just did it right; that's also why I bought all three games including boxed version of them.

                            Also just for the note, the Savage 2 client as I can see is about 700 MB. I downloaded it through torrent back then when there tracker was still alive.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by M1AU View Post
                              That's unfortunate.

                              Even though, in my opinion LGP should really consider adjusting there sales model quite abit.
                              I personally really like the sales model of S2 Games or Introversion Software. Well they both are game developing studios and so they're quite different, but especially Introversion Software just did it right; that's also why I bought all three games including boxed version of them.
                              Heh... Both of your examples are studios self-publishing. Think about that one for a bit.

                              Also just for the note, the Savage 2 client as I can see is about 700 MB. I downloaded it through torrent back then when there tracker was still alive.
                              Heh... A bit more painful than I'd have expected. Right at that threshold. Most people that'd buy the games we're all talking about (Not Savage2...) actually don't HAVE good bandwidth so they'd be downloading all night, paying per bit for the download, etc. S2's getting away with it because the game appeals to that class of crowd that can justify it or has REAL bandwidth in the first place.
                              Last edited by Svartalf; 06-23-2008, 02:22 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Svartalf.. You said every bought Windows copy is a sign for the company to keep on doing Windows titles. Would you accept then downloading the game and complaining to the corp?

                                Just want to know your opinion on this. Sorry if it's already written somewhere.

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