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Valve's Source Engine Coming To Linux

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  • we would all (well almost all) like to get our hopes up, but all arrows on the linux front point to dedicated server. i know off the top of my head that gameservers.com (the largest GSP i believe) uses linux almost exclusively when the option is possible. The demand for steam on the desktop is not nearly as large as dedi server on linux.

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    • Originally posted by quintesse View Post
      Exactly. Even worse, we're only talking about Steam here, so even if it was ported to Linux there still wouldn't be any games to sell! Steam in itself won't magically conjure Linux gams out of thin air.

      The only thing that would maybe make a difference, and it's a big MAYBE, is that having a single distribution mechanism would convince some studios that trying to support Linux is worth the effort. But like you said, I wouldn't hold my breath.
      Some of the games on Steam have a Linux version. World of Goo, Doom 3, and the older UT games come to mind.

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      • Shadowgrounds should be available for Linux too. I'd definitely snap them up for Linux from Stream if I could.

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        • Too many Steam games have Linux versions - including the upcoming Postal 3. If Valve ported their Source engine to abandon DirectX, then it would be a giant leap forwards towards Linux and would also motivate Microsoft to be more competitive. Not to mention that if the games would run better on Linux due to some nasty community tweaks Linux would get a bigger user space - you'd be surprised what would some people do for a few extra fps.

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          • before we ever see steam ported to linux we need a decent ati driver, which we dont presently have. When we get that, then we can start talking about a linux client.

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            • Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
              before we ever see steam ported to linux we need a decent ati driver, which we dont presently have. When we get that, then we can start talking about a linux client.
              Do the proprietary drivers from ati have problems with any native games? From what I've seen, they're fine for that.

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              • Native games work fine. A few do have problems with the drivers, like rendering issues and whatnot, but those are usually resolved after a few 3D tweaks/fixes.

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                • Tweaking X or related activities is something 95% of steam users dont know how to do and will never know how to do. Rendering issues are a big deal; considering we are talking about the video card/drivers..... If something bugs out with the proprietary driver (and you know damn right something will), the first thing users are going to do is turn to steam. You think they are ready for that? What kind of a response are they going to give? maybe something like: "We are sorry your driver fucked up on you, but your on your own. You could try to contact AMD but they prolly wont do shit because your not a fireGL customer. Oh and the open driver isnt good enough to play any 3D games yet. Perhaps you should wait a few years on that. Sucks to be you. Have a nice day.

                  Love Gabe."

                  Im not saying it would be bad for 'em to port it to linux, but i had my hopes up long ago and they had been shattered. Noone else needs to be fed false hope. When steam makes an official announcement of a linux port, then we can look up. The Closed ati driver is still hit or miss situation, take that note from Carmack. The closed driver is getting much better over time, as is the open driver. Hopefully some good will come out of waiting.

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                  • Be tweaking I meant changing a few options in AMDCCCLE. That's "normal" when it comes to games even on Windows. Some games have issues with certain filters, or a certain driver option causes problems.
                    Rendering issues and other bugs are unavoidable. Every driver has those in one way or another and it depends on the game. Normally, a user reports the problems and they get addressed by the game developer or whoever maintains the video driver in use (or by both).

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                    • All respect to Carmack, but I wonder if drivers really are that big a deal?

                      The Unigine developers seems to be able to cooperate with AMD, and not release until their engine works. Is there any reason iD and Valve couldn't do the same?

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                      • you are equating the nvidia blob to that of the ati driver when you say that every driver has some unavoidable bugs. Yes both drivers have countless bugs. One of these drivers is alot better then other other and i think its clear which one. By better, i mean lesser of these "bugs". If a driver cannot handle certain filters or shaders or whatever, it is lacking. The only barriers my nvidia cards have ever had with the proprietary driver, for my 3d use, is the gpu limitations itself. You can compare the performance of the nvidia blob against its windows counterpart but an ati linux vs windows is an absolute slaughter and you know it; particularly getting things running to begin with. On windows you dont need to touch your video driver utilities unless you are getting serious. I cant say i have ever needed to do it with either a nvidia or ati card under windows, even as a heavy gamer.

                        Let me just quote carmack here.

                        Yes, it is. The codebase is much, much larger, and the graphics technology pushes a lot of paths that are not usually optimized. It probably wouldn't be all that bad to get it running on the nvidia binary drivers, but the chance of it working correctly and acceptably anywhere else would be small. If you are restricted to it only working on the closed source drivers, you might as well boot into windows and get the fully tested and tuned experience...

                        John Carmack
                        Its not like hes joe blow, we can account some of our best games to some of his work. So he has a major voice. the ati driver is clearly one of the things holding up linux gaming. As steam, a game distribution company, this is a very big deal. Key is getting things going in the first place. I think he means it must be harder.

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                        • The guy is also saying that it's not worth porting games to Linux until the open source drivers are able to render them. I think he's stalling.

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                          • Originally posted by Remco View Post
                            The guy is also saying that it's not worth porting games to Linux until the open source drivers are able to render them. I think he's stalling.
                            I think its a specific reference to the AMD side of open drivers as nouveau hadn't gained the same spotlight at the time he said that. One thing i dont like is the assumption that we all dual boot .

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                            • If you look at 3D open source games, everyone will tell you that nvidia is the way to go and that you will get better support from the game developers. Most users go with nvidia and start reporting problems to the game developers, which in turn start focusing more on getting their game working with the nvidia blob since that's what the majority of their user base is using. Very understandable, but this means that users with ATI binary blobs or even those on open source drivers will often get the cold shoulder. Again, understandable due to the limited resources on most open source projects.

                              Now that ATI hardware is getting more popular and drivers are offering a decent experience, FOSS game developers are starting to see a change in their usage statics. You can see it now and ask any developer out there; they are now starting to better focus on getting their games working with fglrx and even the radeon drivers. More ATI users also means more bug reports concerning their drivers, which makes it easier and encourages FOSS game developers to address said issues and offer workarounds/fixes, and/or give more weight to concerns regarding the quality of the drivers.

                              Point is, that the video drivers get better as user numbers increase. There is now more interest in having fully functional drivers because of it. If you lack the users, the driver maintainers just don't get the feedback necessary for them to further develop their driver or the incentive for them to fix issues.

                              __________________________________________________ __________________


                              Anyway, got sidetracked there for a bit. To the real issue. I don't think ATI drivers themselves are what's preventing any commercial gaming in Linux. That seems like an excuse not to bring games to Linux.

                              Once you start bringing big commercial games to Linux you inevitably will bring everything that comes with it, which in short equals to money. You think AMD won't want a piece of that pie? If Linux gaming starts getting as big as Windows gaming, then AMD will start doing whatever it deems necessary for it to secure a place in that new market.

                              If commercial game developers keep stalling and offering excuses, then things won't change from how they are now. Entrepreneurship in the industry is all but dead though, so the sad reality is that aside from a miracle, we will never see the big commercialization of gaming in the Linux side of things like we see with Windows. If anything, Linux gaming will remain the realm of hobbyists and small indie studios.

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                              • i somewhat agree with your points regarding the video drivers to the degree of them being an excuse. They are, but only to a degree. About the driver getting better with users, yes and no. I feel it works both ways. About the apps getting better with more ati users, absolutely.

                                I will also note and agree that there are plenty of reasons for our current gaming situation. This is 1 case.

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