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Valve's Direct3D-OpenGL Layer Will Likely Not Benefit Wine

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  • Valve's Direct3D-OpenGL Layer Will Likely Not Benefit Wine

    Phoronix: Valve's Direct3D-OpenGL Layer Will Likely Not Benefit Wine

    A few days ago Valve open-sourced their Direct3D to OpenGL translation layer. While there was some hope that it would benefit Wine, that doesn't appear to be the case...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTYzMDc

  • #2
    good shape?

    good shape wine diretx9.0? i have diferent opinion, when it works it works bad, really bad, really bad fps. valve port games? well they work well very well, i miss something here?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Andrecorreia View Post
      good shape wine diretx9.0? i have diferent opinion, when it works it works bad, really bad, really bad fps. valve port games? well they work well very well, i miss something here?
      well... i may be wrong but wine "emulates" everything to run on linux wich makes it very complex and hard, and valves thing only "emulates" DirectX and everything else is native.
      this may explain why its better even tho is "worst".
      i may be wrong, but im sure someone will correct me if i am

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Andrecorreia View Post
        good shape wine diretx9.0? i have diferent opinion, when it works it works bad, really bad, really bad fps. valve port games? well they work well very well, i miss something here?
        I have different opinion


        Many games had working at this time, if you want know see my youtube channel



        or my blog with results since 2009



        However issues can be still present example (from my own experience on wine): lanten bug on alan wake, MPEG support sequences, 360 mouse movement degree error on some games at fullscreen and other things (and many of them not by solve in short time, big changes on wine requires big time of work)

        But in middle of this many games work and results can by change of one game to another game





        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Andrecorreia View Post
          good shape wine diretx9.0? i have diferent opinion, when it works it works bad, really bad, really bad fps. valve port games? well they work well very well, i miss something here?
          I'm guessing you are not using CSMT? Performance between Source games run under Wine with CSMT and native Linux is actually quite close.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TheSoulz View Post
            well... i may be wrong but wine "emulates" everything to run on linux wich makes it very complex and hard, and valves thing only "emulates" DirectX and everything else is native.
            this may explain why its better even tho is "worst".
            i may be wrong, but im sure someone will correct me if i am
            Dont exactly, WINE (Wine Is a Not Emulator) work translating directx calls to opengl but this process cause overhead (in some games is less in others is much)



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            • #7
              Originally posted by pinguinpc View Post
              WINE (Wine Is a Not Emulator) work translating directx calls to opengl
              ToGL does the same, check page 22 and 23[]. I think the point from TheSoulz was that Wine has to translate more (all the Windows APIs). Also my question from here[] (why does Valve release a stripped-down version optimized for Dota 2 instead of the full source) still stands.

              [] https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/d...to%20Linux.pdf
              [] http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showt...066#post404066

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TAXI View Post
                ToGL does the same, check page 22 and 23[]. I think the point from TheSoulz was that Wine has to translate more (all the Windows APIs). Also my question from here[] (why does Valve release a stripped-down version optimized for Dota 2 instead of the full source) still stands.

                [] https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/d...to%20Linux.pdf
                [] http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showt...066#post404066
                this is exacly what i meant

                Comment


                • #9
                  ToGL benefiting Wine? Who the hell comes up with that kind of nonsense?
                  Also, unless your Direct3D engine targets the decade old 9.0c the way Valve does to support WinXP users, ToGL is of absolutely no use to you. The code drop in general was merely "for reference"; as already mentioned, it is optimized only for the API usages the Source engine has and was never meant to be a complete 9.0c implementation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If nobody bitched about it, you probably still wouldn't write summaries after your 10 page testing orgies, so here is another one:
                    First thing: Dude, learn your prepositions. Don't use "per"! You are pretty much the only person on this mudball who uses it (in every f* article!) and you're doing it wrong, which sickens my Asperger.
                    If you write about articles without going into details (like in a passing mention), use "as per" or better "via" (or even better: cite! Use scholar.google.com and look how it is done) and if you point out stuff "in" other articles, forget your latin and use "in". Yeah... best forget your latin forever and always use "in". Or hire/marry a journalist/writer if you can't write.

                    Second thing: The Wine D3D support is almost complete and acts like an external library which makes it useful for general use, while this translation foo is used as part of the game's engine code and pretty much tailored to the Valve games. This explains why it is limited and not useful for wine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mark_ View Post
                      If nobody bitched about it, you probably still wouldn't write summaries after your 10 page testing orgies, so here is another one:
                      First thing: Dude, learn your prepositions. Don't use "per"! You are pretty much the only person on this mudball who uses it (in every f* article!) and you're doing it wrong, which sickens my Asperger.
                      If you write about articles without going into details (like in a passing mention), use "as per" or better "via" (or even better: cite! Use scholar.google.com and look how it is done) and if you point out stuff "in" other articles, forget your latin and use "in". Yeah... best forget your latin forever and always use "in". Or hire/marry a journalist/writer if you can't write..
                      Please, take a look in what netiquette suggests you,
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etiquette_in_technology
                      "When someone makes a mistake whether it's a spelling error or a spelling flame, a stupid question or an unnecessarily long answer be kind about it. If it's a minor error, you may not need to say anything. Even if you feel strongly about it, think twice before reacting.
                      Private messages are your friends, think about it.

                      Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        At this point, Wine's D3D to OpenGL is as good as it gets. It just needs bugs fixes from here on out. But there should be focus on the Direct3D state tracker. There's no good reason why this shouldn't be the next big step for Wine, other then increased compatibility.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The Gallium Direct3D state tracker would only benefit a small portion of the wine users. (if there are benefits at all)

                          Improving performance of direct3d to opengl benefits all users.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TAXI View Post
                            ToGL does the same, check page 22 and 23[]. I think the point from TheSoulz was that Wine has to translate more (all the Windows APIs). Also my question from here[] (why does Valve release a stripped-down version optimized for Dota 2 instead of the full source) still stands.

                            [] https://developer.nvidia.com/sites/d...to%20Linux.pdf
                            [] http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showt...066#post404066
                            Yes and no. ToGL works at compile time, and Wine works at run-time.
                            Pretty much, with ToGL you write your code using the direct3d api, but instead of having a "#include "d3d9.h" you have a "#include "togl.h" that provides the same functions, but implemented with OpenGL. The only overhead here is that OpenGL and DirectX don't map 1:1, so there might be some inefficiency.
                            Also yes, as you say, Wine has to do tons of extra works. The best example is that ToGL only covers Direct3d, but DirectX is much more (sound, input, helpers). Valve is using SDL so it's not a problem for them, but it is for many other programs.

                            Originally posted by Ancurio View Post
                            ToGL benefiting Wine? Who the hell comes up with that kind of nonsense?
                            Also, unless your Direct3D engine targets the decade old 9.0c the way Valve does to support WinXP users, ToGL is of absolutely no use to you. The code drop in general was merely "for reference"; as already mentioned, it is optimized only for the API usages the Source engine has and was never meant to be a complete 9.0c implementation.
                            The hope is always that newer games will feature a native opengl port - instead this could help with old games, where publisher don't want to spend much time on (In reality, I doubt it will get used by anyone but valve, and maybe some community port).
                            And while it was written with the Source engine in mind, I'm sure it's easier to adapt this than writing a new solution or porting a whole game/engine from direct3d to opengl.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ObiWan View Post
                              The Gallium Direct3D state tracker would only benefit a small portion of the wine users. (if there are benefits at all)

                              Improving performance of direct3d to opengl benefits all users.
                              I thought it's been proven that the state tracker is considerably faster? Also, majority of what wine users? Mac? Binary drivers? Not good reasons not to adopt the state tracker.

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