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Valve Is Making All Their Games Free To Debian Developers

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  • #16
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    No, Steamworks is nonsense, because it locks the developer into one distributor. It's not better than any other type of lock-in (such as Windows API or DirectX for example).
    This is perfect, we don't need fragmentation on pc games platforms too.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by shmerl View Post
      No, Steamworks is nonsense, because it locks the developer into one distributor. It's not better than any other type of lock-in (such as Windows API or DirectX for example).
      That gets into ideology which is impractical in the real world -- and it quite simply is better since it's not developed by a company that has poor standards like Microsoft.

      There is no 'lock-in' that you speak of since developers are free to implement their own features if they choose to do so. Steam and Steamworks provide better features and services to gamers than any other existing competitor (like Xfire).

      Originally, gamers were disgruntled by 'Steam DRM' but after a while everyone loves Steam's DRM and the features Steam provides -- to the point that even I myself am unable to play a game without Steam.

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      • #18
        I wonder what would happen if HL3 would be debian developer exclusive for a month or so.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mmstick View Post
          That gets into ideology which is impractical in the real world
          This is really same thing as making cross platform releases vs. exclusives. I strongly dislike exclusives which require users to use only one platform or tell them to get lost. Steamworks is one of such examples.

          Originally posted by mmstick View Post
          Originally, gamers were disgruntled by 'Steam DRM' but after a while everyone loves Steam's DRM and the features Steam provides -- to the point that even I myself am unable to play a game without Steam.
          Who is "everyone"? I know many users who won't even touch Steam because of DRM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mmstick View Post
            That gets into ideology which is impractical in the real world -- and it quite simply is better since it's not developed by a company that has poor standards like Microsoft.

            There is no 'lock-in' that you speak of since developers are free to implement their own features if they choose to do so. Steam and Steamworks provide better features and services to gamers than any other existing competitor (like Xfire).

            Originally, gamers were disgruntled by 'Steam DRM' but after a while everyone loves Steam's DRM and the features Steam provides -- to the point that even I myself am unable to play a game without Steam.
            lol.
            I really dont get anyone buying a game through steam, often giving the developers less money because of the steam-tax and getting 1 DRM layer on top for the change.

            I dont have Steam installed since I finished portal 2, and unless Valves own games appear on competing platforms, Steam is just an rather evil monopolostic scheme with nothing but hassles for me.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by shmerl View Post
              I said simply - Steam doesn't offer DRM free distribution even when developers don't object, so the argument that it's "up to developers" is false in the context of Steam being DRMed.
              Actually there are quite a lot of DRM-free games on Steam: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/lis...on_steam/page1

              So it _is_ up to the developers. Or do you seriously consider the Steam download platform DRM already?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by shmerl View Post
                I said simply - Steam doesn't offer DRM free distribution even when developers don't object, so the argument that it's "up to developers" is false in the context of Steam being DRMed.
                It is up to the developer to decide how to approach the DRM question.

                At its simplest, if a game builds against the SteamWorks API, then initializing that API requires a valid Steam auth token, which is a form of DRM. The SteamWorks API is used for features like achievements, friends list integration for multiplayer, and full cloud save integration.

                A developer may skip all the SteamWorks API, in which case a game is DRM-free.

                Or they may not build directly against SteamWorks, instead making it an optional runtime requirement - for example FEZ has a command-line parameter to disable SteamWorks which makes it act DRM-free.

                Most gamers view the social features in SteamWorks - like Achievements - as desirable. But those require an auth token.

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                • #23
                  I'd rather have the source code to the games. I get bored pretty quick with games I can't change around any way I want since I have more fun hacking it than I do playing it.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
                    This is really same thing as making cross platform releases vs. exclusives. I strongly dislike exclusives which require users to use only one platform or tell them to get lost. Steamworks is one of such examples.



                    Who is "everyone"? I know many users who won't even touch Steam because of DRM.
                    Unless you can provide a better solution that offers the same features so that developers don't have to reinvent the wheel, there is nothing for your argument to stand upon. Some things are better left maintained through a central authority -- Steam's DRM and features are one such example. Without that central authority, you would merely have a lot of fragmented and poorly implemented ideas that wouldn't be able to interact with the entire gaming ecosystem and would simply just make gamers outright annoyed. Why do you think gaming consoles are popular?

                    Developers are empowered by Steam with the ability to use what they want and when they want. If they want to sell a game with DRM then they can, if they want to sell a game without Steam's DRM they can do that too. If they want to use Steamworks they can, and judging by how the gaming industry is having a ball with Steamworks and a lot of users request for or ask if a game supports Steamworks, it's a pretty useful feature. Xonotic should be coming to Steam eventually, and judging by what the developers have stated, they won't be using Steamworks since they already developed their own solution beforehand.

                    As for who 'everyone' is, everyone is 'PC Gamers'. If you or your friend are not part of that 'everyone,' then you aren't really a PC gamer. There isn't a single logically coherent PC gamer that has a problem with Steam or it's DRM. In retrospect, many PC gamers are embarrassed that they even had an anti-Steam DRM phase.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pouar View Post
                      I'd rather have the source code to the games. I get bored pretty quick with games I can't change around any way I want since I have more fun hacking it than I do playing it.
                      All of Valve's games ship with a SDK and tools to make your own games and mods. You can also decompile existing maps and look at them in hammer. There are literally over a hundred wonderful GoldSrc and Source game/mods. However, only mods ported to Source 2013 engine can run on Linux.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by discordian View Post
                        lol.
                        I really dont get anyone buying a game through steam, often giving the developers less money because of the steam-tax and getting 1 DRM layer on top for the change.

                        I dont have Steam installed since I finished portal 2, and unless Valves own games appear on competing platforms, Steam is just an rather evil monopolostic scheme with nothing but hassles for me.
                        Game developers earn 3x more profit from a single Steam sale than from a retail sale -- so the Steam tax is pretty small. I think you have confused Steam with Origin/EA.

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                        • #27
                          Temar and others: I already explained above. DRM-free means ability to install the game without the service. Steam doesn't offer that even when developers don't object. So it's not up to developers, it's Steam's own decision by design.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                            Originally, gamers were disgruntled by 'Steam DRM' but after a while everyone loves Steam's DRM
                            I am yet to see a *single* person who would like Steam's DRM. You don't like it, either. You tolerate it. That's something else entirely.

                            Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                            As for who 'everyone' is, everyone is 'PC Gamers'. If you or your friend are not part of that 'everyone,' then you aren't really a PC gamer. There isn't a single logically coherent PC gamer that has a problem with Steam or it's DRM. In retrospect, many PC gamers are embarrassed that they even had an anti-Steam DRM phase.
                            Sweeping generalisations much?

                            Originally posted by pouar View Post
                            I'd rather have the source code to the games. I get bored pretty quick with games I can't change around any way I want since I have more fun hacking it than I do playing it.
                            That's the main reason why I like Unreal series games. While the engine source itself isn't open, you can change pretty much anything through UnrealScript (and the UnrealScript source for all of the games is open). To the point where one mod made it into a real-time strategy game!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                              Unless you can provide a better solution that offers the same features so that developers don't have to reinvent the wheel
                              Better solution for what? There are tons of games which don't reinvent the wheel and use various ready engines. They don't use Steamworks.

                              Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                              As for who 'everyone' is, everyone is 'PC Gamers'. If you or your friend are not part of that 'everyone,' then you aren't really a PC gamer. There isn't a single logically coherent PC gamer that has a problem with Steam or it's DRM. In retrospect, many PC gamers are embarrassed that they even had an anti-Steam DRM phase.
                              I am a PC gamer and I principally don't use any games and services with DRM. I see no correlation at all between being PC gamer and DRM usage. And I know a lot of PC gamers who don't use Steam ever. Check out GOG forums and try telling them they aren't really PC gamers.
                              Last edited by shmerl; 01-22-2014, 04:14 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shmerl View Post
                                Temar and others: I already explained above. DRM-free means ability to install the game without the service. Steam doesn't offer that even when developers don't object. So it's not up to developers, it's Steam's own decision by design.
                                Sorry, but that is ridiculous. With that argument you have to be against any online platform. They all need either a browser or a client to download the game.

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