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SteamOS Compositor Details, Kernel Patches, Screenshots

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  • #16
    Originally posted by amehaye View Post
    IIRC UEFI requires you to get a signature from Microsoft. That alone invalidates UEFI in my eyes.
    Nope, in fact to be certified for Windows 8, an x86-64 system must allow the user to disable secure boot or load in their own keys. Microsoft put this in the certification requirement to avoid the scenario where a lazy or crappy OEM omits the secure boot toggle from their firmware, preventing a user from installing Linux on their system and causing a publicity shitstorm on the internet. This brings me back to my original point:

    Originally posted by ricequackers View Post
    For secure boot, they'll either disable it or preload the SteamOS bootloader's keys into the firmware.

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    • #17
      It is not "just" ideological. It has to do with the fact that UEFI (sadly) is bug infested, also due to the fact that even the reference implementation is way too large. It is full of nonsense also (vendors love to put in animations of spinning fans, "3D" setup menus and other crap). It has to do with performance. It has to do with royalties / licenses to be paid for this mess. And last but not least it has to do with security and privacy. A firmware that is so huge like the Linux kernel without drivers, wow, that leaves a lot of open surface for attacks / security holes, general bugs or intentional backdoors.

      So Coreboot would probably be not the worst choice. They can add some Seabios payload in case somebody needs to install Windows on it (which afaik still does some BIOS calls).

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      • #18
        So pretty much it looks like some sort of a debian/gnome3 build-on OS (i think its debian based because of IceWeasel, who else is using it by default) ?

        Oh right, now i see that its actually stated on the last image, Even better.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Adarion View Post
          It is not "just" ideological. It has to do with the fact that UEFI (sadly) is bug infested, also due to the fact that even the reference implementation is way too large. It is full of nonsense also (vendors love to put in animations of spinning fans, "3D" setup menus and other crap). It has to do with performance. It has to do with royalties / licenses to be paid for this mess. And last but not least it has to do with security and privacy. A firmware that is so huge like the Linux kernel without drivers, wow, that leaves a lot of open surface for attacks / security holes, general bugs or intentional backdoors.
          This is the reason I prefer syslinux over grub2. I can't stand bloated software.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by dragonn View Post
            Rt? This is realtime kernel right? Why did they use an realtime kernel for a game console system?
            Some time ago I theorized here games should go better with RT kernels

            Phoronix then made game benchmarks and did not notice significant differences but perhaps Valve did.

            http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag..._kernels&num=2

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            • #21
              Originally posted by wargames View Post
              This is the reason I prefer syslinux over grub2. I can't stand bloated software.
              No kidding. I don't understand why so many distros use GRUB2 as default and not syslinux which is 10^100 times more K.I.S.S. Just has one simple config file. Just type "grub" into terminal with GRUB2 installed and let it autocomplete. It ships with 20 grub commands. That damn thing is just supposed to boot a freaking kernel. WTF? It's the most bloated piece of shit I have ever seen.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                No kidding. I don't understand why so many distros use GRUB2 as default and not syslinux which is 10^100 times more K.I.S.S. Just has one simple config file. Just type "grub" into terminal with GRUB2 installed and let it autocomplete. It ships with 20 grub commands. That damn thing is just supposed to boot a freaking kernel. WTF? It's the most bloated piece of shit I have ever seen.
                because if everything is ok, then you don't see bootloader

                but when something fucks up you don't have to boot to a live cd to fix it, not always possible when you're on the move...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by tomato View Post
                  because if everything is ok, then you don't see bootloader

                  but when something fucks up you don't have to boot to a live cd to fix it, not always possible when you're on the move...
                  And what does that have to do with GRUB 2?

                  Some time ago I theorized here games should go better with RT kernels

                  Phoronix then made game benchmarks and did not notice significant differences but perhaps Valve did.

                  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag..._kernels&num=2
                  Gaming performance is more than just FPS...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                    I still don't see the newsworthiness of SteamOS.

                    So it's a Linux distribution that is utilizes a Debian Wheezy base with extensive modifications. That's no different with Microsoft using a modified Windows for the Xbox. Or Sony using modified FreeBSDs for the PlayStations.
                    Except the changes they make to the kernel/drivers will benefit all users of Linux rather than be tied to their custom proprietary OS.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                      I still don't see the newsworthiness of SteamOS.

                      So it's a Linux distribution that is utilizes a Debian Wheezy base with extensive modifications. That's no different with Microsoft using a modified Windows for the Xbox. Or Sony using modified FreeBSDs for the PlayStations.
                      It's much different, because those optimization can be applied to the mainline kernel or distributions kernels anytime. I doubt Sony uses freebsd kernel. It's probably just bunch of user space, but who really knows? It's closed trash using OS which comes with stupid license that allows them to close it.
                      Last edited by kraftman; 12-14-2013, 11:42 AM.

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                      • #26
                        how to do benchmarks

                        It seems they optimize for low latency. That makes sense there is so much more to gaming performance than FPS (Frames per second).

                        It would be so fun to see what difference it make. But how to measure?

                        I thought for a while and came up with this:
                        How about someone with a high speed camera could set two computers next to each other. Let the two players stand next to each other in a FPS (first person shooter) looking at the same direction. Then let a third player
                        show up and see:
                        1) who can see the third player first
                        2) move mouse react and aim
                        3) let them simultaneously fire to check who gets the kill.

                        If this is feasible or not I don't know. What do you others here think?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                          No kidding. I don't understand why so many distros use GRUB2 as default and not syslinux which is 10^100 times more K.I.S.S. Just has one simple config file. Just type "grub" into terminal with GRUB2 installed and let it autocomplete. It ships with 20 grub commands. That damn thing is just supposed to boot a freaking kernel. WTF? It's the most bloated piece of shit I have ever seen.
                          No, for general use, you need it to be able to boot a large variety of OSes. If it can't boot Windows or Mac OSX, it doesn't fit the role it needs to fit. Having said this, note that I have no idea if syslinux is able to boot other OSes aside from Linux.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Adarion View Post
                            does anybody have a hint if these Steam-Boxes (though it is more a design principle that can be used by many builders) are going to support / make use of coreboot? (And thus avoid UEFI crap)
                            Here's your hint: SteamOS REQUIRES UEFI. The shipping beta does not support any other firmware. And thank fuck for the OEMs, since it means they can use conventional motherboards.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by directhex View Post
                              Here's your hint: SteamOS REQUIRES UEFI. The shipping beta does not support any other firmware. And thank fuck for the OEMs, since it means they can use conventional motherboards.
                              That's bullshit, linux is debian, and any competent debian/ubuntu user should be able to fix it (and also, the nvidia-only requirement): http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamOS/comm...teamos/ce1apdz
                              The thing is, steamos is lacking some packages and has some extra, unneeded ones.

                              But anyway, why am I feeding stupid, ignorant trolls...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by asdfblah View Post
                                That's bullshit, linux is debian, and any competent debian/ubuntu user should be able to fix it (and also, the nvidia-only requirement): http://www.reddit.com/r/SteamOS/comm...teamos/ce1apdz
                                The thing is, steamos is lacking some packages and has some extra, unneeded ones.

                                But anyway, why am I feeding stupid, ignorant trolls...
                                Those instructions are so bad. Making a real BIOS remix of the installer isn't hard, but nobody with the knowledge to do it has done so yet. I won't until the redistribution terms are made clearer

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