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If you were to create a FLOSS game, how would it be?

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  • #31
    Of course live cds can use swap partititon, but you really count peas. You will gain no speed when using something else than KDE. And as soon as you would start a kde tool, then all kdelibs are loaded as well and you even LOSE memory as usually have another toolkit loaded before.

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    • #32
      Heh... KDE is going to be a problem. GNOME will be a problem. Heck, EDE or Enlightenment would be a problem under the right circumstances.

      The reality is, do you 'need' a desktop environment for a "console-like" gaming live-CD? Or, would something a little lighter (Down to just booting into the game, lighter...) suffice?

      If you want game save move ability, etc. you'll need SOME sort of UI- but a UI app framework for the desktop, something like KDE or GNOME, is just too freaking bloated for the task. You don't need "app integration". You don't need "printer support", etc. That's what both KDE and GNOME bring to the table for you. In a game, unless you NEED that sort of thing, you just don't bring it along. It's been asked how SONY managed so much with so little in the case of the PS2. It's dead simple. They KEPT it simple. If you're going to do the same thing with this stuff, you're going to have to do much the same thing.

      Now, as far as games go, it's up in the air- and you should be able to make a title run on the live-CD as well as a desktop for it to be "useful".

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
        Heh... KDE is going to be a problem. GNOME will be a problem. Heck, EDE or Enlightenment would be a problem under the right circumstances.

        The reality is, do you 'need' a desktop environment for a "console-like" gaming live-CD? Or, would something a little lighter (Down to just booting into the game, lighter...) suffice?

        If you want game save move ability, etc. you'll need SOME sort of UI- but a UI app framework for the desktop, something like KDE or GNOME, is just too freaking bloated for the task. You don't need "app integration". You don't need "printer support", etc. That's what both KDE and GNOME bring to the table for you. In a game, unless you NEED that sort of thing, you just don't bring it along. It's been asked how SONY managed so much with so little in the case of the PS2. It's dead simple. They KEPT it simple. If you're going to do the same thing with this stuff, you're going to have to do much the same thing.

        Now, as far as games go, it's up in the air- and you should be able to make a title run on the live-CD as well as a desktop for it to be "useful".
        Yeah this would be a great option as well, you could just simply toss the execution of the game into the .xinitrc file and you're set to go. Toss the cd in, let it load, and suddenly a few seconds later, you're in the main menu of whatever game it is on that cd. That really is kinda console like, you could practically build your own home console system off that method for each game. I never really thought of it that way.

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        • #34
          Are any of you familiar with the Linux-Gamers.net Games LiveDVD, or LG-LiveDVD? They've done something rather interesting, instead of using a DE as such, they use Fluxbox and place the icons for launching the games right in the "desktop", the menu will allow you to mount an USB drive and use that for your save games. If anything, it only misses some "gaming tools", such as IM client, IRC, and others. Overall it is a neatly done disc.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Malikith View Post
            Yeah this would be a great option as well, you could just simply toss the execution of the game into the .xinitrc file and you're set to go. Toss the cd in, let it load, and suddenly a few seconds later, you're in the main menu of whatever game it is on that cd. That really is kinda console like, you could practically build your own home console system off that method for each game. I never really thought of it that way.
            Not to mention that with LinuxBIOS compatible systems, in theory, you could be into the game in as little as 5-8 seconds from system boot up!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Thetargos View Post
              Not to mention that with LinuxBIOS compatible systems, in theory, you could be into the game in as little as 5-8 seconds from system boot up!
              Shh... Don't let anyone get any ideas here... You might cause trouble...

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                Shh... Don't let anyone get any ideas here... You might cause trouble...
                It's been my err... ahh... mmm... pet project (at least in thought) to get a LinuxBIOS compatible motherboard (preferably MicroATX), put some well supported graphics card in, have a rather minimalistic setup and create a live system/micro distro so that to use it JUST like a Console (with the advantage of being upgradeable, according to user's needs)... Hopefully when Linux gets in-kernel mode setting full graphics boot/system startup will be seamless to the user with simply a "Loading" screen and BAM! PlayTime!

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                • #38
                  If I were looking to pitch a OSS game I would follow the MMO model. OSS client & server so you can do your own thing or... pay subscription to moi and use my professionally hosted huge bandwidth cluster.

                  I would stear away from making a WoW clone as you'd just be yelled at, instead I'd try and make something that kind of resembled the PvP 'pew pew' and time based skill system of EVE:Online with elements of Earth & Beyond. I'd probably try and find a way of doing all three x86 formats and at least one console; really rake it in as it were.

                  Not a clue what engine or stuff.

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                  • #39
                    With only one problem: money. If there is one thing people underestimate with MMOs then it's running costs. It just blows you away. Unless your pockets are deep or you get a lot of money from the users it's a no-go. What goes for the engine... I think there's some MMO engine out there but I can't remember anymore out of my head what it's name is.

                    ( and yes, 3 month old post... who cares... kick on the topic :P )

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                    • #40
                      I think what Linux gaming needs is a real innovation...
                      See, we got Tabbed Browsing before IE, we got the KDE 4 desktop that gave many great technologies (which are more or less stable), we got 3D effects of which Vista users can only dream from, etc etc.
                      HOWEVER, (apart from the at the moment crappy graphics and sound card support) if you look at the gaming site you can see many very small games with a handfull special ones like Neverball. Then you got the big OSS games like Nexuiz, Warsaw, Planeshift, Freeciv and so on, but these copied most features from other comercial (partly Windows) Games like UT, Civilization, Guild Wars, World of Warcraft (warsaw is a bit special through its graphics). The OSS variants of these are quite good, however, they all use a known concept and don't do much to improve that one but only copy it.
                      So, if I was to create a FLOSS game, I'd first take some time to really find some NEW concept, or at least wouldn't try to just copy some Windows game.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
                        With only one problem: money. If there is one thing people underestimate with MMOs then it's running costs. It just blows you away. Unless your pockets are deep or you get a lot of money from the users it's a no-go. What goes for the engine... I think there's some MMO engine out there but I can't remember anymore out of my head what it's name is.
                        That is what I'd found out with a pet project with some online acquaintances some of which worked for Loki Games and I was one of the ISV contacts (Mainline maintainer for the CVS repository on Utah-GLX at that time...). John "Overcode" Hall, Nicolas "Mordred" Vining, and a handful of others, myself included, tried to come up with a MMORPG when they were still a really, really new thing. Unless your pockets are deep, you won't get even started because it really IS a difficult task to accomplish a good MMORPG that can handle loads like Evercrac...er...craft or World of Warcrac...er...craft can. And this doesn't even get into maintaining the network presence.

                        Yes, there ARE games out there that're MMOGs and are FOSS- they're being ran by a bunch of very, very dedicated individuals. And you should be grateful to them. If they take donations to support the infrastructure and you play, you should give...

                        As for the engine, it's a decent enough one- and a complete one at that, being the codebase that was largely used with one of the more popular MMORPGs that started out with the engine mostly FOSS to begin with- this would be NEL, which was given to the world by Nevrax and powered the World of Ryzom. There's a couple of game engines that're sans the network stack, that if you knew precisely what you were doing, could accomplish the same results. Only problem is- it's still a painful prospect; it'd have to be a labor of love with lots of your own cash going into it or as a commercial venture where the engine is FOSS, but strictly regulated for the game, and they have to pay to play the game on the engines you provide for access to the content.

                        ( and yes, 3 month old post... who cares... kick on the topic :P )
                        No biggie... It's actually in-keeping with the porting projects discussion with other threads. We need to change the rules of the game (no pun intended), just like our favorite OS has done with software development and operating systems in general. This is actually the sort of thing that would do this- but you need to keep it in your head if you go this route, it's not going to be an easy road with that path. There's others that'd be slightly easier, really.

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                        • #42
                          One of the problems isn't so much the engine. Vegastrike, Fightgears and so on are really good engines. The problem is GFX and SFX. Making those high resolution textures tends to require good artists many of whom are going to want some form of remuneration for their hard work, same with SFX, using off the shelf noises and music might well incur licensing issues and such.

                          Of course, if you can get the team together there is nothing stopping you making the next 'Dragon Age' or such.

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                          • #43
                            I think a game alone won't help much. Granted there are FOSS engines around which are decent... but that's it: decent. I messed with a couple of them and all did not really scale well for an ambitious project. One of the reasons for the same games on Linux is that the available engine solutions are geared for mostly one game type: shooter or some RTS clone. While the mentioned shooters are nice... it's all shooters. I'm missing some different games. That is though not much different than under Windows where there is just more mass ( and mess )

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Dragonlord View Post
                              I think a game alone won't help much. Granted there are FOSS engines around which are decent... but that's it: decent. I messed with a couple of them and all did not really scale well for an ambitious project. One of the reasons for the same games on Linux is that the available engine solutions are geared for mostly one game type: shooter or some RTS clone. While the mentioned shooters are nice... it's all shooters. I'm missing some different games. That is though not much different than under Windows where there is just more mass ( and mess )

                              Very true, there are not many engines out there that push hardware to it's limits in linux nowdays. You have a bunch of ioquake games and a few alternatives. Even the more modern games such as ET : QW doesn't really push the hardware hard. Another limiting factor is the lack of professional grade artists out there in FOSS projects. It certianly doesn't look good for gaming on linux when everything out there looks like it's 5-6 years behind in eyecandy. It would certianly be interesting if something like the most recent game engine that id has or something like project offset was released at the same in FOSS form as it debuted on other platforms. You would see alot more games for any OS if only the game content was copywrite. It would allow anybody to port the engines and still allow game developers to make some moola.

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                              • #45
                                Well... such engines "are in the works" ( by the way... what are the regulations here on mentioning projects? )
                                Last edited by Dragonlord; 08-12-2008, 06:32 PM.

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