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Ouya Game Console Performance Is Disappointing

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  • #31
    Hmm, I'm not very up to date with the performance figures of these ARM devices; so what would the OUYA be roughly equivalent to, in terms of previous consoles? The original Xbox?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
      Hmm, I'm not very up to date with the performance figures of these ARM devices; so what would the OUYA be roughly equivalent to, in terms of previous consoles? The original Xbox?
      Mostly comparable to Xbox at graphics, but with a lot more CPU performance.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
        The main reason Google chose Java is because it's easier to code in it than in C++ (plus from what I've heard Google loves everything Java) and that the performance hit isn't that big. It's just a tradeoff so they can get more people coding for it.
        Technically google bought android from a company that already had gone a ways down the java road. I suspect that if it were google today they might prefer the type of sandboxing that chrome does with its pepper interface. Frankly java was going down for application use before android came out and now its pretty much just enterprise and android keeping it going, I guess some academic too. For the stuff I do I wouldn't touch java with a 100meter pole, it never lived up to what it promised.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by philip550c View Post
          Nah, it could do that now, with XBMC for android, it works well on my old phones with worse hardware than the OUYA.
          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          Stripping Android from it would actually hurt it's functions as a HTPC. As it has been mentioned, xbmc already works fine with the Ouya and sticking with Android means that you can still utilize services like Netflix/Hulu and still utilize features that they offer like "SuperHD" and AC-3 surround. Those features are missing on the PC web browser versions of those services. Switching it to linux would actually reduce those capabilities. I've got an Ouya and eagerly awaiting it for just plain HTPC purposes and never wanted it for games in the first place.
          Hulu doesn't have anything worth watching, my library and Red Box does as good a job as Netflix would since where I live bandwidth enough for decent quality streaming is way too damn expensive. I also don't use any first party Google software, no Android, no Chrome and no ChromeOS, I'm not willing to take an advertiser's word that they wont violate my right to privacy even if they are giving away open source software.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
            Gaming history is littered with underpowered devices that have achieved amazing gaming experiences despite their limitations. I don't expect there are too many games that will force OUYA over the edge, but I may just be out of touch with Android gaming. To suggest we should expect something like the graphics we see on the PS3 or XBOX 360 become common on Android in the short-term is a bit unrealistic, although in a couple years things may have accelerated at an exceptional pace.

            I think the OUYA has played its cards right by focusing on a low price-point and developers, since there will be plenty of people willing to get a cheap home console for fun, not for graphics. I'm not sure if they would get more business by focusing on high-end graphics at a higher price.
            It's not going to work because the system is probably slower then the Wii in total output, you'd have to go to the Mali-T678 GPU to match the performance of the PS3 in raw pixel pushing power.

            It's also not going to work because game devs are too used to having ample resources, they aren't forced to squeeze blood from a stone like they where with everything Nintendo64/Playstation/Sega Saturn era and older.

            Its further not going to work for the same reason as the Sony Xperia doesn't work, while there are tons of games already made for Android, they will not be updated to work with a non touch screen device. If you wanted o use it as an emulation box you'd still be stuck with the on screen controls since the emulator would still be written exclusively to run on a touch screen.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Kivada View Post
              Hulu doesn't have anything worth watching, my library and Red Box does as good a job as Netflix would since where I live bandwidth enough for decent quality streaming is way too damn expensive. I also don't use any first party Google software, no Android, no Chrome and no ChromeOS, I'm not willing to take an advertiser's word that they wont violate my right to privacy even if they are giving away open source software.
              But you would trust the likes of MS/Sony with your right to privacy?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Squarepusher View Post
                I am sorry but as the developer of RetroArch (an app where we NEED relatively good audio and video latency to maintain any kind of decent audio-video synchronization), I can tell you that you couldn't be more wrong about this.

                Oh BTW - please do 'debate me' on this - I'm looking quite forward to seeing you defend the absolutely terrible runtime performance that this piece of garbage - Android - delivers to developers who are actually going to the effort of writing non-managed code for it - it will be quite amusing to see the amount of denial about this particular piece of crapware.
                You make it sound like dalingrin doesn't know a thing or two about Android.

                It's a shame though that you can't do native apps on Android like you say. Even webOS allowed that.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mike Frett View Post
                  It's not about performance, it's about content. And, if you have seen the amount of Games and Apps available at launch for the Ouya, it's quite spectacular. But hey, the PS3 and 360 specs are quite disappointing by todays standards also. Besides, you've all had a year to study this, being surprised of the performance is ignorance and laziness; in which case we probably don't want you developing for it anyway.
                  How many of those already long existing android games play properly with a controller and don't still display on screen controls?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                    But you would trust the likes of MS/Sony with your right to privacy?
                    I never let the PS3 online, the only consoles I ever used online where the Dreamcast and the PS2 for only 2 games, Metal Gear Online and Final Fantasty XI, neither game could mine anything and both loaded their own custom launchers not tied to Sony. Thus the only game company I allowed to have access to my personal info was Squaresoft, for an MMORPG that required a subscription.

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                    • #40
                      That was so biased and based on rumors and not even a single fact that one may think it is sponsored by no other but Steam themselves
                      I don't think you have played a single OUYA game to speak about it's performance nor you have done a comparison
                      I am not an OUYA advocate but I have always been against throwing stick and stones without anything actual

                      You have been bashing OUYA since its first announcement as is you did accept it as a personal archenemy

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by nikiiv View Post
                        That was so biased and based on rumors and not even a single fact that one may think it is sponsored by no other but Steam themselves
                        I don't think you have played a single OUYA game to speak about it's performance nor you have done a comparison
                        I am not an OUYA advocate but I have always been against throwing stick and stones without anything actual

                        You have been bashing OUYA since its first announcement as is you did accept it as a personal archenemy
                        I'm one of the most critical people of Larabel on this site, however... Even a blind man could see the Ouya was doomed from the start.

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                        • #42
                          +1 what scionicspectre said

                          +1 what przemoli said

                          +2 what Mike Frett said

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                          • #43
                            I wish the project success, but I think Tegra 3 will really hurt it.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Squarepusher View Post
                              Android is an absolute piece of garbage for any kind of realtime app.
                              Originally posted by Squarepusher View Post
                              It was the absolute worst idea on Earth to base an OS (INTENDED FOR A MOBILE PLATFORM) around some piece of garbage Java VM
                              Android is generally very competitive with iOS on various OpenGL/CPU/GPU benchmarks even with the Dalvik VM system. Apple's hardware often scores higher, but that is more of a testament to Apple's engineering excellence and better hardware. Benchmarks aren't perfect, but I trust them way more than I trust you.

                              Audio latency does seem to have been a legitimate issue. Android 4.2 claims to address this depending on hardware support from manufacturers. From the official Android dev site:
                              http://developer.android.com/about/v...elly-bean.html

                              "Android 4.2 improves support for low-latency audio playback, starting from the improvements made in Android 4.1 release for audio output latency using OpenSL ES, Soundpool and tone generator APIs. These improvements depend on hardware support devices that offer these low-latency audio features can advertise their support to apps through a hardware feature constant. New AudioManager APIs are provided to query the native audio sample rate and buffer size, for use on devices which claim this feature."
                              Also, docs on OpenSL ES for pre Android 4.2:
                              http://mobilepearls.com/labs/native-...les/index.html

                              As OpenSL ES is a native C API, non-Dalvik application threads which call OpenSL ES have no Dalvik-related overhead such as garbage collection pauses. However, there is no additional performance benefit to the use of OpenSL ES other than this. In particular, use of OpenSL ES does not result in lower audio latency, higher scheduling priority, etc. than what the platform generally provides.
                              It doesn't sound like Android's audio latency problems had anything to do with Davlik, virtual machines, or Java.

                              Android is taking performance and latency very seriously. Look at the Project Butter 60 FPS locked interface improvements in 4.1. You can also see tons of more detailed performance analysis and improvements on the Android dev site.

                              I don't see any evidence that Dalvik or their choice of the Java language has been some kind of permanent problem with Android performance. I would also point out that even console games use some higher level programming language like Lua in some sandbox type runtime to process game logic and it doesn't seem to have disastrous performance consequences.

                              Ouya as a whole... The Tegra 3 is just lower performance hardware than what you get with a PS3/360 console. Also, the game selection seems mostly warmed over ports. I am cheering for the Ouya, but this first version doesn't seem like something people would want to buy.

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                              • #45
                                I guess it would be interesting to see the fps min/max range to check variability. That's where GC stalls will hit you. But anyone claiming that java is up to the task of real time hard requirements is deluding themselves. When you want to push the envelope that's where this stuff will bite you.

                                About lua: that's a different animal. Lua is typically embedded inside c/c++ applications and not the other way around, and it's also tailored more towards game logic only, not managing memory. Very different animals entirely.

                                One advantage the ouya has is that they have their own android distro. They can make sure there's nothing like gmail or other misbehaving applications waiting around to trash out the GC, and I would hope OUYA doesn't put useless uninstallable crapware like you see on many vendor built firmwares.

                                Perhaps next gen ouya would ship with a c/c++ pure control and performance oriented system with an android compatibility layer on top to get the best of both worlds (well we can hope, right?).
                                Last edited by bnolsen; 04-18-2013, 03:03 PM.

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