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Linux Gamers Make Up ~2% Of Valve's Steam Users

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  • #46
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
    I didn't play in a console until I was a man
    I'd say it's time to start behaving like one then.
    I think that's a little bit too much to ask since it looks like he got to play with consoles just yesterday.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
      if crusader kings 2 is anything like the first one then it is a piece of shit LIKE YOU
      It's a great game. Far better than Total war series which have messed up strategic part.

      infiltration and ja2
      JA2 is great, but there are some great games in steam as well: Wargame:EE which is one of the best games I've ever played.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Mike Frett View Post
        Let's break it down even smaller. The following guy had more sales on Linux than Mac, 16%. Defender's Quest

        Yes more people use Windows, but when XP and 7 finally have their support ended, the people using those Microsoft platforms will be forced into using precisely what they are avoiding, the 'modern' interface. It's going to be interesting to watch if they move to Mac, Linux or suck up to Microsoft and push themselves into that new UI.

        Let's say they pushed themselves into that new UI. Now after months and years of using that, they will be hooked into it by Microsoft's hooks. At that point, switching to Mac or Linux would be extremely difficult due to the extreme UI differences. It would be devastating for the future of Linux without a similar UI, that's what worries me. For Linux to have any future, the users of these OS's which support is ending, need to jump in our (Linux) lake and let their feet get wet.

        That's how I'm thinking, it may be difficult for some to understand what I mean. In any case, Defender's Quest shows that there is money in the Platform.
        It's not only about UI, but about performance as well. I suppose Mac is the slowest in graphic while Linux is the fastest when using Nvidia drivers. For example: Wargame:EE runs far better in Ubuntu than Win7 on my box. I have to note I was using different driver versions, but it shouldn't matter much in this case, because Nvidia had a lot of time to optimize their drivers for Windows and Wargame.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by efikkan View Post
          I guess there is going to be "big news" when Linux surpasses OS X on Steam. If the trend continues, maybe we'll know May 1st, maybe it will be a little later.
          It's still too early to tell. I think we'll find out where Linux settles in six months or so.
          As I posted earlier, in the couple of months following steam launching for osx, mac users made up more than 8% of it's users.
          Last edited by Boland; 03-02-2013, 06:57 PM.

          Comment


          • #50
            There is only one truth for software development: The good program or game is platform independent. That means Operating_System independent and Instruction_Set independent. That also doesn't cost more money or development time, its a lie when you hear otherwise. For Open_Source its easy because you have the source to compile as you want, and its made with free software that can use with any OS. For Closed_Source things are a little more difficult. For OS independence its easy, you just have to use some open things like OpneGL, new graphics_engines (even if you program for D3D) they do that automatically if you want. Also you must not use Microsoft_Compilers if you want Wine to have it easy, just use Intel's for closed_C++ and Mono if you stupid enough to need NET. For Closed_Source Instruction_Set independence you need ether to have many builds (x86 and Arm are the most wanted), or you need to write to C-C++ and compile with LLVM. If i was developer, i would only program OpenGL-LLVM games, for all OS and ISA available (for example Android_LLVM). Why this isn't happening not even to the minimum? Because of a big Cartel (Mafia), with many big companies inside. They even have intrude schools and universities.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by pallidus View Post
              stfu faggets what do you know about games?


              You merely adopted pc gaming, i was born into it, molded by it. I didn't play in a console until i was a man and by then it was nothing to me but blinding.


              I finished half life in 1999 i played the cstrike mod before it was even 1.0, i played it all before steam.


              To state that cstrike holds a fucking candle to mw2 or black ops is an absolute joke. Fucking idiots and i was quite good at cstrike but there's no comparison to the rythm of mw, everything about mw is ages ahead of cstrike.


              If crusader kings 2 is anything like the first one then it is a piece of shit like you

              the battles in ck1 were a fucking joke

              even an acient aoe2 made ck look like shit

              play rome or medieval2 then you will recognize a good rts...



              Now you know what really rustles my fucki>ng jimmies???


              There are really good games for linux already

              better than anything in fucking steam


              but nobody bothers to even update them so they can be used


              2 examples


              infiltration and ja2


              fuck all of yous

              http://youtu.be/nyt1lovuu3q
              best!!!!

              Post!!!!

              Ever!!!!

              Comment


              • #52
                Why aren't these trolls banned of the forum? CK2 is pure strategy, no tactic level, it has no comparison to something like AoE.

                Also, if you consider Civ V "AAA", I'd stick to indies thank you very much. Seriously, unless some special user mod prove it otherwise, the default game sucks. CIV IV is much, much better.

                What the average CoD player wants i frankly don't care. I'm more interested in things like Star Citizen, or some mmorpg like Regnum which went live on steam for linux too. Action rpgs are fun too, Bastion should be selling quite well, too bad no Torchlight II port exists.

                Some people like shooters and thats fine. TF2 fills my needs. I'm no tactical shooter fan, but funny fps games i appreciate. With tf2 i see no reason for all other source games not to be ported as well; the hard work is done. CS:Source is live too so their players might comment.

                I actually purchased HL1, i never played the story mode of that game
                Some good adventure games are in there too, and Amnesia seems to have excellent reviews if terror is your stuff.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
                  stfu faggets what do you know about games?


                  you merely adopted pc gaming, I was born into it, molded by it. I didn't play in a console until I was a man and by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING.


                  I finished half life in 1999 I played the cstrike mod before it was even 1.0, I played it all before steam.

                  fuck all of yous
                  LOL, I think you fail to realize that some of us have been playing games a very long time. You are right though, my first console was blinding, pong on the old 13 inch black and white really let the contrast come through. Remember Adventure on the old CDC Cybers and other behemoths, those were the days. MUDs?

                  Think if I keep feeding the troll he will get any better at it?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by artivision View Post
                    That means Operating_System independent and Instruction_Set independent. That also doesn't cost more money or development time, its a lie when you hear otherwise.
                    It's not even remotely a lie, especially when (a) you have to spend time and money training devs about other platforms they don't know, and most game devs only know Windows and consoles (b) you have to write things over yet again since POSIX is not portable to most consoles/mobile and POSIX wrappers are not efficient enough on Windows for many things, but Linux requires its use, (c) platform-specific APIs offer many features and efficiency that no cross-platform standard API does (Linux does this, too; see the Linux-specific APIs that systemd or Mesa make use of, and why the BSDs are a bit upset about them; a game will use epoll, not POSIX, for instance, since the POSIX-endorsed BSD sockets API leaves some things to be desired), (d) you need to test your Linux version which costs more time and money from the QA dept., since you can't use open testing since you need to _sell_ those assets and the story and nobody wants to pay to endlessly replay the same small sections of pre-pre-Alpha content (most people don't even want to _be paid_ to do that; it's a shitty job), and (e) so-called "open" APIs like OpenGL and OpenAL are a massive time and money-sink due to their ancient error-prone design and severely lacking debugging and development tools, unlike the modern incarnations of Direct3D or the third-party FMod/Wwyse (which are portable, at least, as they deal with platform-specific audio APIs or OpenAL for the developers, and add a ton of important features that FOSS developers can't be bothered to implement in a library themselves).

                    My job as a game developer is to make a product that millions of people can enjoy and make my company enough money to make another great game, not to make some idealist's definition of good software architecture. The practical goals of development generally have very little to do with ancient UNIX wisdom or first-year CS student idealism. Which is why the vast majority of games and end-user software on desktops, iOS, Android, etc. generally don't follow your supposed good advice. Nobody gives a shit about what the Internet thinks makes "good software." We only care about shipping our product on time, within budget, and to a wide audience. Everything else is intellectual wanking about what good software is supposed to be.

                    In most cases, that means only spending money to port to platforms that can both pull in enough revenue to pay for the port and make enough profit to make the CEO actually notice the platform on an earnings chart. Everything else is a waste of time and money, especially for throw-away software like games, written once, released, supported with DLC for a few months, and then forgotten as work on a new project begins and all personnel are pulled off the old project. It would be nice if games were Open Source; I'd love that for a number of reasons, allowing the community to maintain it long after commercial viability has ended being an obvious one, but that is not likely to happen for major games/engines anytime soon, unfortunately.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                      It's not even remotely a lie, especially when (a) you have to spend time and money training devs about other platforms they don't know, and most game devs only know Windows and consoles (b) you have to write things over yet again since POSIX is not portable to most consoles/mobile and POSIX wrappers are not efficient enough on Windows for many things, but Linux requires its use, (c) platform-specific APIs offer many features and efficiency that no cross-platform standard API does (Linux does this, too; see the Linux-specific APIs that systemd or Mesa make use of, and why the BSDs are a bit upset about them; a game will use epoll, not POSIX, for instance, since the POSIX-endorsed BSD sockets API leaves some things to be desired), (d) you need to test your Linux version which costs more time and money from the QA dept., since you can't use open testing since you need to _sell_ those assets and the story and nobody wants to pay to endlessly replay the same small sections of pre-pre-Alpha content (most people don't even want to _be paid_ to do that; it's a shitty job), and (e) so-called "open" APIs like OpenGL and OpenAL are a massive time and money-sink due to their ancient error-prone design and severely lacking debugging and development tools, unlike the modern incarnations of Direct3D or the third-party FMod/Wwyse (which are portable, at least, as they deal with platform-specific audio APIs or OpenAL for the developers, and add a ton of important features that FOSS developers can't be bothered to implement in a library themselves).

                      My job as a game developer is to make a product that millions of people can enjoy and make my company enough money to make another great game, not to make some idealist's definition of good software architecture. The practical goals of development generally have very little to do with ancient UNIX wisdom or first-year CS student idealism. Which is why the vast majority of games and end-user software on desktops, iOS, Android, etc. generally don't follow your supposed good advice. Nobody gives a shit about what the Internet thinks makes "good software." We only care about shipping our product on time, within budget, and to a wide audience. Everything else is intellectual wanking about what good software is supposed to be.

                      In most cases, that means only spending money to port to platforms that can both pull in enough revenue to pay for the port and make enough profit to make the CEO actually notice the platform on an earnings chart. Everything else is a waste of time and money, especially for throw-away software like games, written once, released, supported with DLC for a few months, and then forgotten as work on a new project begins and all personnel are pulled off the old project. It would be nice if games were Open Source; I'd love that for a number of reasons, allowing the community to maintain it long after commercial viability has ended being an obvious one, but that is not likely to happen for major games/engines anytime soon, unfortunately.
                      Did you ever figure out why Left4Dead ran faster under OpenGL

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        you want me to stop trolling, very well...


                        here's the real reason I hate steam:


                        back in the day when we were kids, there were a bunch of 'cyber coffee' type of shops (internet and computers weren't really affordable for most people so they would go there)


                        it was amazingly fun to play action quake 2, starcraft, etc etc in these cybercoffee lans...


                        cstrike was also one of the few games we had amazing hours and hours of fun playing.



                        steam killed all that ... even when you made your own lan with friends, you no longer needed 1 copy now you ahd to have 6 or 7


                        that was pure corporate greed, capitalism fascism, " everyone who even wants to touch our game (wasn't even theirs btw it was a fucking MOD) has to pay full price SIEG HEIL"


                        maybe it was a huge coincidence, a question of strange timing, but when steam was released all the lans/cybercoffees dissapeared.



                        that is why I hate steam with a passion and will never use it...


                        for someone who has loving memories of being real young and having a blast playing virtua cop2 and street fighter alpha in the arcades and starcraft and quake etc in cybercoffees to me steam killed social gaming in the name of pure profit.



                        I will never use steam or any drm shit.



                        I do wish someone would package jagged alliance 2 and the infiltration unreal mod, hell even unreal tournament so you would be able to use them in modern distros

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by liam View Post
                          Did you ever figure out why Left4Dead ran faster under OpenGL
                          Probably because Nvidia did good job at optimizing those OpenGL paths, and because Valve DX9 engine could do something wrong way, or because Nvidia focused on optimizing DX11 paths, while introducing some DX9 performance regressions along the way.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by elanthis View Post
                            It's not even remotely a lie, especially when (a) you have to spend time and money training devs about other platforms they don't know, and most game devs only know Windows and consoles (b) you have to write things over yet again since POSIX is not portable to most consoles/mobile and POSIX wrappers are not efficient enough on Windows for many things, but Linux requires its use, (c) platform-specific APIs offer many features and efficiency that no cross-platform standard API does (Linux does this, too; see the Linux-specific APIs that systemd or Mesa make use of, and why the BSDs are a bit upset about them; a game will use epoll, not POSIX, for instance, since the POSIX-endorsed BSD sockets API leaves some things to be desired), (d) you need to test your Linux version which costs more time and money from the QA dept., since you can't use open testing since you need to _sell_ those assets and the story and nobody wants to pay to endlessly replay the same small sections of pre-pre-Alpha content (most people don't even want to _be paid_ to do that; it's a shitty job), and (e) so-called "open" APIs like OpenGL and OpenAL are a massive time and money-sink due to their ancient error-prone design and severely lacking debugging and development tools, unlike the modern incarnations of Direct3D or the third-party FMod/Wwyse (which are portable, at least, as they deal with platform-specific audio APIs or OpenAL for the developers, and add a ton of important features that FOSS developers can't be bothered to implement in a library themselves).

                            My job as a game developer is to make a product that millions of people can enjoy and make my company enough money to make another great game, not to make some idealist's definition of good software architecture. The practical goals of development generally have very little to do with ancient UNIX wisdom or first-year CS student idealism. Which is why the vast majority of games and end-user software on desktops, iOS, Android, etc. generally don't follow your supposed good advice. Nobody gives a shit about what the Internet thinks makes "good software." We only care about shipping our product on time, within budget, and to a wide audience. Everything else is intellectual wanking about what good software is supposed to be.

                            In most cases, that means only spending money to port to platforms that can both pull in enough revenue to pay for the port and make enough profit to make the CEO actually notice the platform on an earnings chart. Everything else is a waste of time and money, especially for throw-away software like games, written once, released, supported with DLC for a few months, and then forgotten as work on a new project begins and all personnel are pulled off the old project. It would be nice if games were Open Source; I'd love that for a number of reasons, allowing the community to maintain it long after commercial viability has ended being an obvious one, but that is not likely to happen for major games/engines anytime soon, unfortunately.
                            Stop exaggerating. Each and every project that need to support console and Win, quickly learn to abstract any platform-specific API's. So devs who work on them are few. Others work on APIs produced by them. And most Linux native ports are being done by one-man-army teams, so even porting of DX-centered render engine is not impossible task that require dozens of devs.

                            Most costs come out of QA which must be expanded for each and every new supported set up. (For Linux it also mean multiplying those setups by number of distros supported..)

                            As for tools/libs. We both know that they improve when there is demand for them. No demand no improvement. Tools/libs for Win/DX did not reached its good state overnight.
                            So its not permanent blocker. And for that matter if game devs will start to avoid platform specific libs/tools it will pressure their creators to expand those to new platforms too. (OH SORRY I forgot that MS have NO interrest in serving best devs interest what-so-ever. Hey but game devs know what they choose here. )

                            All in all. Costs of supporting new platform are IRRELEVANT.

                            PROFITABILITY RULEZ.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by przemoli View Post
                              Probably because Nvidia did good job at optimizing those OpenGL paths, and because Valve DX9 engine could do something wrong way, or because Nvidia focused on optimizing DX11 paths, while introducing some DX9 performance regressions along the way.
                              Or just because the Linux kernel is faster like Valve already said.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by przemoli View Post
                                All in all. Costs of supporting new platform are IRRELEVANT.

                                PROFITABILITY RULEZ.
                                Exactly. It's just a matter of being smart and use cross platform tools or being dumb and use windoeze tools.

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