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Valve's L4D2 Is Faster On Linux Than Windows

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mo0n_sniper View Post
    Great read Hamish Wilson, thanks. Somehow it felt strange reading about all that good linux graphics support
    I grew up reading old Linux Journals from between 1997 and 2002, so I know of lots of great articles from the time. Lots of nice gaming articles from before Loki went bust.

    http://www.linuxjournal.com/googlesearch?s=loki

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    • #62
      Originally posted by mirv View Post
      On a different subject: anyone else use the r200 drivers with UT? That combo was fast.
      I started using Linux on a Radeon 7500 and then later upgraded to a Radeon 9200 and had a lot of fun playing classic natives games such as Quake 3, Shogo, SOF, UT, and UT2004, not to mention OpenArena and Nexuiz and the like. I could just never understand why Doom 3 would never work - I was so pleased when it became possible to launch it using the free drivers back in 2010 though.

      Sorry for the nostalgia trip everyone.
      Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 08-02-2012, 11:23 AM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
        But surely that is comparing Apples and Oranges there isin't it? You can compare Direct3D to OpenGL, but for the rest it is SDL that provides a similar or even arguably better feature set to DirectX (at the very least on Linux but also on other systems as well).
        The way you wrote "Apples and Oranges" made me think that in IT discussions, it would be interesting to grow a habit of saying "it's like comparing Apple to Orange"

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        • #64
          Idiotic thing No1: OpenGL isn't multi-threading. Its actually multi-threading and super-threading: if you have a multilevel software rasterizer for LLVM for example, you can run the graphics part on many different instruction sets like CPU cores and GPU cores at the same time just with 2 back-ends, see PlayStation3 (6 SPEs /1.8macTflops used for graphics). Idiotic thing No2: Opengl is slower than Direct3D. They have only a small difference: OpenGL has extensions(ARB) of the protocol build inside GPUs. Even if you don't use assembly and use GLSL, you will still be faster. Important No3: OpenGL is "Open". So you can find it inside GPU drivers on all operating systems, and you can develop libraries for it: Imagination has OpenRL, wile NVidia develops Voxel-Raytracing solution for OpenGL (ID-tech 6).

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          • #65
            We donīt know in which conditions the benchmark was done in linux, because a default ubuntu 12.04 install with nvidia blob performs much much worse than windows 7.

            Also, a curious note. The reason why opengl is not widely used, is because the xbox alone sells more games than pc, mac, linux and similar
            Last edited by narciso; 08-02-2012, 01:24 PM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by narciso View Post
              We donīt know in which conditions the benchmark was done in linux, because a default ubuntu 12.04 install with nvidia blob performs much much worse than windows 7.

              Also, a curious note. The reason why opengl is not widely used, is because the xbox alone sells more games than pc, mac, linux and similar
              No. For one, console games typically don't make extensive use of their higher order API's. On the PS3, for instance, the native libgcm graphical library is MUCH preferred over the use of PSGL. Same for the 360. Higher order API's are simply to slow for consoles with limited resources. Its understood that any port between any console/PC will need its entire graphical engine re-written from scratch, due to the API/hardware differences.

              The "consoles holding DX back" or "Xbox killing OGL" are both false statements, but repeat something enough...

              I blame a combination of three factors for OGL becomming more or less a dead spec for PC gaming:
              1: OGL 3.0 failing to deliver
              2: Id Tech 4's steep HW requirements
              3: Unreal 3 [seriously, how many major titles use Unreal these days?]

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              • #67
                Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
                I blame a combination of three factors for OGL becomming more or less a dead spec for PC gaming:
                1: OGL 3.0 failing to deliver
                2: Id Tech 4's steep HW requirements
                3: Unreal 3 [seriously, how many major titles use Unreal these days?]
                I can add another one:
                4: Poor driver support from all vendors except nVidia

                In recent years even Autodesk has made the move from OpenGL towards Direct3D, and the main reason they cite is driver compatibility (http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/...lution_788.pdf)
                The release of Rage also demonstrated the poor state of OpenGL drivers on Windows once again. The game just would not work properly on Radeons or Intel drivers. It worked on nVidia, but with bugs.
                I had to try no less than 4 special 'Rage-optimized' beta drivers from AMD before my HD5770 could run Rage acceptably.
                The reason for this is a bit chicken-and-egg I suppose. Because the API is near-dead anyway, no OpenGL software is released, so OpenGL driver issues are neither found nor fixed.
                Last edited by Scali; 08-02-2012, 02:21 PM.

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                • #68
                  For those of you wondering if the extra performance could be due to the game looking shittier on Linux

                  Valve Linux team says:
                  August 2, 2012 at 10:55 am
                  The image quality equals that seen on Windows with Direct3D.

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                  • #69
                    @Scali

                    I am pretty sure rage works fine (on win) with hd 4000 even at 1920x1200, when 30 fps are enough for you.

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                    • #70
                      For all the people that keeps complaining that D3D and OpenGL might not look the same and there for be cheating: First of all I don't think Valve would call it done unless they achieved parity in the game on both platforms. Second the article sites OpenGL numbers for both plat forms and in all cases (WinD3D vs WinOGL, LinuxOGL vs WinOGL, LinuxOGL vs WinD3D) OpenGL and Linux has the better performance. And if you want a hint at how the OpenGL render looks, take a look at the shots of it running in one of the first articles about it here on Phoronix (shouldn't be hard to find), yeah i know thows shots are from a camera, doesn't show specs and could be dated, but still!

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Kano View Post
                        @Scali

                        I am pretty sure rage works fine (on win) with hd 4000 even at 1920x1200, when 30 fps are enough for you.
                        Yes, it does now, after driver updates (I never claimed otherwise)... but not at release afaik.
                        It also doesn't work on older Intel GPUs because their OpenGL drivers were never updated to the required minimum OpenGL version of 3.3 (even though any DX10 IGP from Intel should be able to support that).

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                        • #72
                          I dont have got hd 3000, but it worked somehow with hd 2000, but pretty slow compared to hd 4000.

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                          • #73
                            It's amusing reading some of the people on the [H]ard|Forums being butt-hurt that Valve is focusing so much effort on Linux.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
                              3: Unreal 3 [seriously, how many major titles use Unreal these days?]
                              I take offence to that. It's Unreal Engine 3. Unreal is a game series. And before someone makes another mistake, it's Unreal Engine 3, and not "Unreal 3 Engine".

                              On that note, UE3 is on the PS3, and I'm pretty sure that writing renderers is not difficult for it. Just that nobody seems to be interested in investing into that. Not yet, anyway; with Valve games on Linux, they might be.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by GreatEmerald View Post
                                I take offence to that. It's Unreal Engine 3. Unreal is a game series. And before someone makes another mistake, it's Unreal Engine 3, and not "Unreal 3 Engine".

                                On that note, UE3 is on the PS3, and I'm pretty sure that writing renderers is not difficult for it. Just that nobody seems to be interested in investing into that. Not yet, anyway; with Valve games on Linux, they might be.
                                Yes, apparently Epic was not as excited about linux as Valve is: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=ODkyMw
                                They had announced a native linux port early on, but it got delayed and delayed, and eventually cancelled.

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