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Valve's L4D2 Is Faster On Linux Than Windows

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  • #16
    Originally posted by frostwarrior View Post
    A very nice read. Thanks for this, was enjoyable and informative.

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    • #17
      Poor Elanthis!

      I wonder if he will ever reply...
      You know, that Phoronix forum member who thinks he is a graphics API god but is really nothing more than a Microsoft fanboy.
      Always saying how much better and faster Direct3D is compared to OpenGL; saying that you can't really have multi-threading with OpenGL...
      Probably too embarrassed now to see why he just isn't competent enough to work for ValvE.
      Have fun convincing yourself that OpenGL isn't worth it, while real programmers use it just fine instead of whining on the Phoronix forums!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by frostwarrior View Post
        But I'm not talking about "anything". I'm being specific, talking about graphic drivers and API's.
        How was gaming on debian woody?
        I don't recall it being bad.. I remember playing Enemy Territory on Woody with no problems... I'm pretty sure I was using blob graphics drivers though.
        Linux really isn't bad for gaming, it's just that the open graphics drivers are lagging too far behind current generation games.. I think that's just a matter of manpower.. As somebody else said, if Linux can get a solid 5 FPS advantage over Windows on the latest games, then a *LOT* of people will switch from Windows.

        I want to buy an AMD Trinity ultrabook, but the AMD 7000 series GPU support in Linux is scary bad..

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        • #19
          Originally posted by frostwarrior View Post
          But I'm not talking about "anything". I'm being specific, talking about graphic drivers and API's.
          How was gaming on debian woody?
          I sunk many hours into UT and Q3A on Linux with my G400Max and the DRI drivers. This was from 2000-2004. For those games, which were ported well, there was no appreciable speed difference.

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          • #20
            I would actually argue that Linux was in a better state when it came to graphics drivers way back in the day when we still had Loki. We had solid support and FOSS drivers from companies such as 3DFX and Matrox, and ATI was a more competitive option than it was for all the years it stagnated after going like Nvidia and being proprietary only before AMD bought them and revived their free efforts.

            Don't believe me? Read this article from the time:
            http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4152

            We are only now approaching a similar state as we had then with high-performance blobs but also decent supported FOSS drivers (only in this case from Intel and AMD).
            Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 08-01-2012, 11:21 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by kiwi_kid_aka_bod View Post
              Except there is no mention of Image Quality. Maybe the DirectX looks twice as good. Who knows.
              That was the first thing I thought of also. There have been benchmarks where drivers were detecting the benchmark and dropping frames or reducing image quality to increase FPS. There have been cases where some games were faster in Wine due to unimplemented graphics functions that either reduced the GPU load or caused the game engine to skip some DirectX features (I can't remember which). If the OpenGL version is producing the same output (on the screen) as the DirectX version then it's a win. Otherwise it's meaningless.

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              • #22
                Great news. I always knew Linux had the potential for better gaming performance, because of its tweakability (you can tweak the OS so that very little background processes run, among other things)

                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                As a side question. Why are people still programming for directx? It works only on windows. Program for opengl and you make your engine more portable from the start for if (actually when) you'll port it to linux. It's not like directx is so much easier than opengl.... brainwashed devs..
                Mainly support from what I understand, and in general Direct3D seems to be leading the edge in terms of graphical power and things like that (they were the first to introduce geometry shaders), while OpenGL seems to be playing catch up. With DirectX, everything is in one nice little package provided by Microsoft, but OpenGL only comes with a graphics library, and no input/sound/video libraries, which DirectX provides. I also found the documentation of DirectX to be much better (i.e. all in one place) compared to the docs for OpenGL, which are all over the place (this is from my experience, and I am not a game developer so I could be inexperienced)

                Also, I believe Microsoft did something during the Vista days to reduce the performance of OpenGL deliberately.. I think that switched a lot of developers to Direct3D, but I'm not sure.
                Last edited by 9a3eedi; 08-02-2012, 12:28 AM.

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                • #23
                  I'd like to know more about this crunch that was mentioned in the comments of the page that Michael got this information from. It would be awesome if it is open and patent free and is able to solve the st3c problem.

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                  • #24
                    This is what they said about the performance difference between direct x and open gl.

                    'This experience lead to the question: why does an OpenGL version of our game run faster than Direct3D on Windows 7? It appears that it’s not related to multitasking overhead. We have been doing some fairly close analysis and it comes down to a few additional microseconds overhead per batch in Direct3D which does not affect OpenGL on Windows. Now that we know the hardware is capable of more performance, we will go back and figure out how to mitigate this effect under Direct3D.'

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                    • #25
                      While MS has most surely "has it out" for OpenGL, and DirectX is designed as a developer sink-hole (as with most MS solutions), it's also a very good API, arguably better than OpenGL in many ways. Especially HLSL vs GLSL.
                      DirectX is a OOP design, which helps with error handling and creates easier-to-understand frameworks. That being said, OpenGL is just fine itself, and any programmer worth his salt should be able to use it to make games and applications. The reason it's fallen behind in recent years, is because Windows has been The gaming platform for awhile.. that's changing now with the markets focus on Tablets & Smart Phones which are largely OpenGLES driven. So OpenGL is making a comeback, and I hope Valve puts a lot of weight behind this, and the Linux Desktop to bring great graphics to the open technology world.

                      I think some people here are too quick to dish out harsh words to DirectX, credit where credit is due. That being said, I'm a big supporter or Open Source and I'm hoping OpenGL not only sees market increase, but also API improvement in the years to come.

                      Thanks Valve!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by kiwi_kid_aka_bod View Post
                        Except there is no mention of Image Quality. Maybe the DirectX looks twice as good. Who knows.

                        Also, it's kind of shady of Phoronix talking about all this optimising of the Intel drivers, and how Linux gets 300+FPS, before finally sneaking in the note that the 300+FPS was Nvidia after many articles omitting this detail.

                        Finally, in reading the original blog post, it would have been interesting to see how many frames each of the three areas contributed to the improvement (6 FPS to 315 FPS).
                        They used same video card and same PC to make tests.

                        I can assure you that same settings in ETQW in Linux or in Windows , no matter Linux Distro, ends up with ETQW looking much better than in Windows be it XP or 7.

                        In fact, video playback also look better out of the box in Linux than in Windows XP or 7 with VLC with same settings.

                        LINUX RULES and any resistance is futile !!!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Prescience500 View Post
                          I'd like to know more about this crunch that was mentioned in the comments of the page that Michael got this information from. It would be awesome if it is open and patent free and is able to solve the st3c problem.
                          I just read 1st phrase and it seems OPEN SOURCE

                          Check it out ! :

                          http://code.google.com/p/crunch/

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                          • #28
                            I wonder if performance will be any different (either way) under a 64-bit Linux.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by johnc View Post
                              I wonder if performance will be any different (either way) under a 64-bit Linux.
                              Till some time ago it used to be 32bit+PAE the top dog....but it seems that in UBUNTU 12.04 the top dog is 64bit...

                              However, the differences don't seem too big.

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                              • #30
                                I just spammed a Portuguese site (I'm Portuguese) that was talking about the Win8 entering in production....there was a flame war there against Win8 and i simply copy and pasted the info about L4D2 extra speed under Linux

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