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  • #16
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    So we have...

    - A video driver debacle
    - A kernel that changes every three minutes
    - A sound system that consistently produces audio skips
    - Window managers and desktop environments that simply don't work

    Now ask oneself... what could possibly go wrong?
    My guess;

    video driver - if you are a real-gamer, you likely will be using amd/nvidia blobs, as the OSS aren't (really) good enough, if you want all of the bells and whistles....the OSS drivers might (at least radeon/intel) be good enough for lighter game play, while nouveau will likely blow the big one. I know (personally) i probably won't have any serious issues with Nvidia (blob).

    Kernel that changes - That shouldn't be a big deal, and it's not like you have to upgrade your kernel every five-minutes. I just upgraded my kernel, a few days ago, but before that had been using the same kernel for months ~ after all, you can have more than 1 kernel installed... it is easy to install a kernel that your distro doesn't maintain/provide updates for.

    skipping audio - I assume you mean PA, as i don't get skipping audio with ALSA or JACK, in any application. But i thought PA 2.0 was supposed to have resolved a lot of the issues, like skipping, poor audio, etc?

    WM/DEs that don't work - Don't use one if it 'doesn't work', or report the problem (bug). Stick with a WM/DEs that DO work.

    But i think we will see some improvements to linux and our software stacks, with gaming becoming more popular on the platform. Hell, i am not even a gamer, but i intend on purchasing some games/titles when steam is available for linux, as i would really like to see it be a success/win.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by johnc View Post
      So we have...

      - A video driver debacle
      - A kernel that changes every three minutes
      - A sound system that consistently produces audio skips
      - Window managers and desktop environments that simply don't work

      Now ask oneself... what could possibly go wrong?
      Atleast you've dropped the pretense and just resort to trolling now. Go figure.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Kano View Post
        @MonkeyPaw

        poor boy, xbox 360 (usb) controllers work perfectly, take a look there:

        http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?p=68035
        I only have wireless 360 controllers, and a Sixaxis. I was hoping to not have to buy yet another controller. I just want to emulate some SNES and N64 games at the moment.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
          Atleast you've dropped the pretense and just resort to trolling now. Go figure.
          What can I say -- I'm amazing.

          Originally posted by ninez View Post
          video driver - if you are a real-gamer, you likely will be using amd/nvidia blobs, as the OSS aren't (really) good enough, if you want all of the bells and whistles....the OSS drivers might (at least radeon/intel) be good enough for lighter game play, while nouveau will likely blow the big one. I know (personally) i probably won't have any serious issues with Nvidia (blob).
          If the compiz devs can't even get a smooth experience with the blobs, how are these game publishers going to deal with the headache? And if even nvidia can't keep up with the moving target that is the wide variety of kernel and userspace configurations out there, how is Valve going to handle that kind of user support?

          And it seems that with each compiz revision a tear-free desktop becomes further out of reach. Gameplay is obnoxious on Ubuntu 12.04 now.

          Now us enthusiasts are probably going to find ways around the fact that all the pieces are a hacked-together mess... but if Valve is looking to move some gamers over to Linux to avoid the Windows 8 fubar, then they're going to have a hard time supporting some of the newer users IMO. Even the Humble Bundles don't roll out particularly smoothly on Linux.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by johnc View Post
            What can I say -- I'm amazing.



            If the compiz devs can't even get a smooth experience with the blobs, how are these game publishers going to deal with the headache? And if even nvidia can't keep up with the moving target that is the wide variety of kernel and userspace configurations out there, how is Valve going to handle that kind of user support?

            And it seems that with each compiz revision a tear-free desktop becomes further out of reach. Gameplay is obnoxious on Ubuntu 12.04 now.

            Now us enthusiasts are probably going to find ways around the fact that all the pieces are a hacked-together mess... but if Valve is looking to move some gamers over to Linux to avoid the Windows 8 fubar, then they're going to have a hard time supporting some of the newer users IMO. Even the Humble Bundles don't roll out particularly smoothly on Linux.
            You may have valid concerns, but obviously Gabe and company feel that the time for Steam on Linux is now. Valve has been known to hold its products until they are ready, and with the promise of a launch this year, things might not be as bad as you think.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by johnc View Post
              And if even nvidia can't keep up with the moving target that is the wide variety of kernel and userspace configurations out there, how is Valve going to handle that kind of user support?
              That's the 2nd time you've brought up kernel versions now. Why in the world would Valve need to care what kernel someone is using?

              As far as the userspace configurations, that is definitely a concern. I'm guessing that Steam will probably ship with a pre-packaged set of libs that games can easily use, so that they don't have to worry about the particulars of specific distros. That's not exactly the linux way, but it does seem like a fair trade-off, since the LSB hasn't been able to fix that issue.

              I also expect they will only officially support a few distros - Ubuntu, with maybe a few others sprinkled in, and then just be friendly towards allowing people to get it up and running elsewhere, without providing any real support for them. Plenty of linux apps run fine cross-distro without going to any great lengths.
              Last edited by smitty3268; 07-02-2012, 09:24 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MonkeyPaw View Post
                You may have valid concerns, but obviously Gabe and company feel that the time for Steam on Linux is now. Valve has been known to hold its products until they are ready, and with the promise of a launch this year, things might not be as bad as you think.
                I agree with the gist of your post, but I think it's worth pointing out that due to the phenomenon of Valve Time, "this year" could easily mean "next year".

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                • #23
                  @MonkeyPaw

                  did you try the wireless connector for xbox 360 pads for pc?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by johnc View Post
                    - A video driver debacle
                    I've don't have any issues with the NVidia or Intel drivers. I had an ATI card once that didn't last long because there were just too many issues with the drivers.

                    - A kernel that changes every three minutes
                    Not an issue that I've seen before.

                    - A sound system that consistently produces audio skips
                    I've had Linux running on lots of hardware over the years and I have not come across audio skipping before. I have had a lot of issues with Intel chip sets and static though.

                    - Window managers and desktop environments that simply don't work
                    The newer ones seem to have issues with certain games. Trine 2 for example. Under Gnome 3 my top bar doesn't hide. Under KDE4 my bottom bar doesn't hide. It's not a common occurrence but why is it even happening in the first place?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kano View Post
                      @MonkeyPaw

                      did you try the wireless connector for xbox 360 pads for pc?
                      No, I don't have one. I suppose I could pick one up, but by then I might as well grab a Logitech wingman or something that just plugs and goes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Plombo View Post
                        I agree with the gist of your post, but I think it's worth pointing out that due to the phenomenon of Valve Time, "this year" could easily mean "next year".
                        True again, but when Valve "isn't ready," you don't hear a word about whatever it is they are working on. Take Half Life 3 or HL2:EP3. They left us with a cliff hanger years ago at the end of HL2:EP2, and so far no timetable on a follow up. In the meantime, they hit us with the wonderful Portal 2.

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                        • #27
                          ive used the ps3 controller as a pc controller before. its apparently maybe possible through bluetooth, but i did it with usb. it was pretty much just plug in and hit the ps button. dmesg should show it as a hid device and the joystick programs should show mobements for it.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by johnc View Post
                            If the compiz devs can't even get a smooth experience with the blobs, how are these game publishers going to deal with the headache? And if even nvidia can't keep up with the moving target that is the wide variety of kernel and userspace configurations out there, how is Valve going to handle that kind of user support?

                            And it seems that with each compiz revision a tear-free desktop becomes further out of reach. Gameplay is obnoxious on Ubuntu 12.04 now.
                            I have ZERO problems with Compiz (built every couple of days from bzr) + Nvidia 302.17 beta... it is smooth and works fine with any 3d-intensive apps that i ever use. I can't comment on AMD blob, but nvidia has been working very nicely... and what do you mean 'if nvidia can't keep up'?!?! nvidia produces the best, most performant GFX driver for linux - and they always release a stable && beta driver, so it is pretty rare to see them not support X or other required things. (Wayland aside, but i don't think they have good reason just yet to do that).

                            Out of curiosity - isn't 12.04 using 0.9.7.x still?! - if so, part of the problem is likely in that (i would think, and Unity too). Bug fixes from lp:compiz get cherry-picked into 0.9.7.x branch (for LTS), but 0.9.7 was a bit problematic/buggy in a few situations, and the 0.9.8 series has some (much) bigger architectural changes, some of which have improved compiz quite a bit.. for one, it uses very little resources compared to 0.9.7 series. A lot of code has been cleaned up and/or refactored, not to mention every single bug that i reported has been fixed, including some of the plugin regressions.

                            Originally posted by johnc View Post
                            Now us enthusiasts are probably going to find ways around the fact that all the pieces are a hacked-together mess... but if Valve is looking to move some gamers over to Linux to avoid the Windows 8 fubar, then they're going to have a hard time supporting some of the newer users IMO. Even the Humble Bundles don't roll out particularly smoothly on Linux.
                            Are we talking about my computer or your computer, when you say 'hacked up mess'?! because it sounds like your talking about your own ubuntu-based system, that sounds like it has issues that i don't experience...

                            My main desktop runs *very very well*. ie: i can put lots of videos on fullscreen, open up VMware launch several VMs (with H/W acceleration), open GLadish - launch a bunch of synthesizers/fx to play via my midi-keyboard, compile wine + update my system (with more than one core) + whatever other apps may be open and everything works just fine. I don't experience any crazy (visual) lags, everything tends to work how it should.

                            The only issue i was having, was my RT-kernel didn't like 300g file transfers, but that was only a problem once, and has been fixed upstream. So it wasn't a big deal.

                            I think Valve may have some issues with Linux (probably mostly in ubuntu land), but i'm not nearly as pessimistic as you are. I also think they have a lot of potential customers who currently only use Windows for gaming, but have already migrated to Linux over the last few years. i know quite a few people who fall into this category, for sure. I also tend to think since they seem to be linux-friendly i could see them working a little closer with OSS developers, than some companies are willing to.

                            hopefully, Valve's endorsement of Linux will lead to some improvements, as well.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Plombo View Post
                              Those last two are simply not true.
                              The last one is. When I run a game in Linux, the desktop gets fucked up if the game doesn't run at the same resolution as the desktop. If I alt+tab from the game, the resolution doesn't change. Good luck using a system like that.

                              Linux is not for games, period.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                                The last one is. When I run a game in Linux, the desktop gets fucked up if the game doesn't run at the same resolution as the desktop. If I alt+tab from the game, the resolution doesn't change. Good luck using a system like that.

                                Linux is not for games, period.
                                I have seen those issues only when i run games through wine. I'm sure if this is a real problem, it'll be fixed.

                                Comiz might be the source of all problems. Mostly performance issues. After switching to kde, everything just works. I dont know, why kwin is so good and why compiz devs cannot accomplish that.

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