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  • #16
    Originally posted by dimko View Post
    Kitchen knives do more good than bad. One day when it will be other way around they will be restricted. Child porn is also not forced upon others(victims are obvious exception), still, just because it's not forced, it doesn't mean it's not bad.
    I am talking about good and bad, and consequences.
    So what exactly is your stance?

    1. would you like to stop people from thinking about bad stuff?
    2. would you like to change the law so that thinking about driving 200 mph is equal to driving 200 mph?
    3. if there are no victims why do you still think it is bad?
    4. if it is your opinion that something is bad why should other people be held accountable for that?

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    • #17
      Evidence

      Originally posted by Ferdinand View Post
      Do you have any evidence that people that play games are heavily influenced by them? I don't believe in karma by the way imho it is just a horrible religious idea. My experience is that when I don't like something I don't do it. When I like something that does harm I try to not to do it.
      is that this sort of games are very ell restricted in some countries(I am not saying that this is right or wrong, id rather give freedom to those games, since what is restricted is popular), that means a lot of people think same way, and quite a few are educated smart people.

      Regarding karma, on contrary, i think its a good term. It is good consequence(as a term) of bad thing(religion). Not everything in religion is bad, but overall, it's rather bad. In my way of thinking, which is for many obvious reasons is incorrect, karma is philosophical term, not religious. There is no closer/better word. It's like butterfly effect, only more socially aimed.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by FutureSuture View Post
        So once again Windows gamers are paying slightly below average, Linux gamers way above average and nearly double that of Windows gamers, and only Valve is jumping in to support Linux as one of the top dogs? Meh...
        There probably just isn't a big enough market. Even Valve's intentions seem to be less about satisfying the Linux user base and more about... something else.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dimko View Post
          is that this sort of games are very ell restricted in some countries(I am not saying that this is right or wrong, id rather give freedom to those games, since what is restricted is popular), that means a lot of people think same way, and quite a few are educated smart people.
          They are restricted because a few people in power think like you do. There is no evidence that countries where you can buy the game uncensored are more violent.
          Originally posted by dimko View Post
          Regarding karma, on contrary, i think its a good term. It is good consequence(as a term) of bad thing(religion). Not everything in religion is bad, but overall, it's rather bad. In my way of thinking, which is for many obvious reasons is incorrect, karma is philosophical term, not religious. There is no closer/better word. It's like butterfly effect, only more socially aimed.
          The way you describe karma is how most people in the west think about it. And in that definition I agree that what comes around goes around. Most people would find that fair. But in the religion where karma comes from it means that however your life is now it is the result from one of your previous lives. This life is punishment for what your soul did in other lives.
          That is the risk when you take a religious word that already means something and you use it differently. Kind of like how miracles happen all the time in the papers but they are never supernatural somehow...

          The butterfly effect is about chaotic systems where you can't predict what will happen I don't see how that is like "what comes around goes around"
          Last edited by Ferdinand; 06-05-2012, 11:37 AM.

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          • #20
            yes and no

            Originally posted by Ferdinand View Post
            So what exactly is your stance?

            1. would you like to stop people from thinking about bad stuff?
            2. would you like to change the law so that thinking about driving 200 mph is equal to driving 200 mph?
            3. if there are no victims why do you still think it is bad?
            4. if it is your opinion that something is bad why should other people be held accountable for that?
            1 Yes. that also includes me.
            2 No, thinking about and doing are different things, have very much different consequences
            3 Victim is person who experiences violence, even the one who projects it
            4 I don't think bad can be stopped, I just hope things will fail, same as this game. Being somewhat bad is in our nature. Envy will never go away, as far as there is such things like wealth, superior bodies, superior minds, yet it doesn't mean you can indulge yourself for being envy. Deal with that shit. Forcing your will on others is as bad as wishing them death, so no, forcing shit on others is bad.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by dimko View Post
              1 Yes. that also includes me.
              2 No, thinking about and doing are different things, have very much different consequences
              3 Victim is person who experiences violence, even the one who projects it
              4 I don't think bad can be stopped, I just hope things will fail, same as this game. Being somewhat bad is in our nature. Envy will never go away, as far as there is such things like wealth, superior bodies, superior minds, yet it doesn't mean you can indulge yourself for being envy. Deal with that shit. Forcing your will on others is as bad as wishing them death, so no, forcing shit on others is bad.
              You would like to stop people from thinking bad stuff. You don't want to force anybody from thinking bad stuff. You don't want to punish anybody for thinking bad stuff. Right?

              So it is more like in your ideal world people would only think thoughts you would like?

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              • #22
                My ideal world

                Originally posted by Ferdinand View Post
                You would like to stop people from thinking bad stuff. You don't want to force anybody from thinking bad stuff. You don't want to punish anybody for thinking bad stuff. Right?

                So it is more like in your ideal world people would only think thoughts you would like?
                wouldn't have people in it. Or people wouldn't have personality, in that sense, robots could very well be next step in evolution.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by dimko View Post
                  To think about certain things too. Thinking about little kids in a sexual way is as much wrong as actually engaging in it, it's just consequences are different. Just because you can imagine you can shoot off hand of lawful and reasonable Police officer or do it in a game doesn't make it any better.0
                  There is nothing wrong with having a sexual thought about anything. In fact, if a pedophile only thinks about sexual acts with a child, but refuses to let himself do it, he should be applauded for his strong moral character and ability to control himself. That is not evil, that is even heroic.

                  Same thing with violent expression. As long as you do not shoot the hand off a cop, then you should be applauded for not doing it.

                  Originally posted by dimko View Post
                  Kitchen knives do more good than bad. One day when it will be other way around they will be restricted. Child porn is also not forced upon others(victims are obvious exception), still, just because it's not forced, it doesn't mean it's not bad. I am talking about good and bad, and consequences.
                  Actually, there is nothing evil about having naked pictures of children. My mother has plenty of me from when I was growing up. Does that make her evil?

                  Child porn is a problem because the children in the sources are being abused. An object in of itself is not evil.

                  People getting off on it is also disgusting, but not actually evil. Them paying or supporting it's creation is evil, as it will support the continued practices used in it's creation. Publishers, eh?

                  Originally posted by dimko View Post
                  is that this sort of games are very ell restricted in some countries(I am not saying that this is right or wrong, id rather give freedom to those games, since what is restricted is popular), that means a lot of people think same way, and quite a few are educated smart people.
                  Pointing to some random group of people, who you say are "smart people", and saying "they agree with me!" is not a real debate tactic.

                  Originally posted by dimko View Post
                  Forcing your will on others is as bad as wishing them death, so no, forcing shit on others is bad.
                  Like telling people they should not play Carmegedon and supporting those who wish to ban it? I have never played the game, but this is just unreasonable.
                  Last edited by Hamish Wilson; 06-05-2012, 12:59 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                    There is nothing wrong with having a sexual thought about anything. In fact, if a pedophile only thinks about sexual acts with a child, but refuses to let himself do it, he should be applauded for his strong moral character and ability to control himself. That is not evil, that is even heroic.

                    Same thing with violent expression. As long as you do not shoot the hand off a cop, then you should be applauded for not doing it.



                    Actually, there is nothing evil about having naked pictures of children. My mother has plenty of me from when I was growing up. Does that make her evil?

                    Child porn is a problem because the children in the sources are being abused. An object in of itself is not evil.

                    People getting off on it is also disgusting, but not actually evil. Them paying or supporting it's creation is evil, as it will support the continued practices used in it's creation. Publishers, eh?



                    Pointing to some random group of people, who you say are "smart people", and saying "they agree with me!" is not a real debate tactic.



                    Like telling people they should not play Carmegedon and supporting those who wish to ban it? I have never played the game, but this is just unreasonable.
                    You are not becoming hero for not doing bad things. Not in my book. Not by defenition.
                    hero [ˈhɪərəʊ]
                    n pl -roes
                    1. a man distinguished by exceptional courage, nobility, fortitude, etc.
                    2. a man who is idealized for possessing superior qualities in any field
                    3. (Myth & Legend / Classical Myth & Legend) Classical myth a being of extraordinary strength and courage, often the offspring of a mortal and a god, who is celebrated for his exploits
                    4. the principal male character in a novel, play, etc.
                    [from Latin hērōs, from Greek]

                    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hero
                    And my personal definition, person who sacrificed something, ultimately his/her life(or something of greater value) in order for other to be better.

                    No, your mom is not evil, but she did not make pictures of you in a naughty way, did she?(pictures of little kids are all right, i don't mind kupid pictures on valentine card, do i?)

                    People getting off is necessary evil. People who do , don't have sex, which is beneficial to them and others. I open myself here up on troll attack. Hitler.

                    Majority make up commonly accepted morality. This majority I was talking about have created laws that i like and follow in country where I live and some other places too. Dismissing it is also not a good tactics. AFAIK, pedophilia is restricted here in Germany. In most of countries too.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
                      Like telling people they should not play Carmegedon and supporting those who wish to ban it? I have never played the game, but this is just unreasonable.
                      I played it. And no, I still dont like it, even more than I did earlier on.

                      Forcing: The use of physical power or violence to compel or restrain: a confession obtained by force.

                      Sorry, did I use any?

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                      • #26
                        What does any of this have to do with the Humble Indie Bundle?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dimko View Post
                          And my personal definition, person who sacrificed something, ultimately his/her life(or something of greater value) in order for other to be better.
                          Yes, that is why it is heroic. These people do not choose to be pedophiles, they are born that way, and if they fight these urges because they know it would be wrong to actually act on them, they are fighting their own gratification and urges for a greater good. That fits your definition perfectly.

                          Originally posted by dimko View Post
                          Majority make up commonly accepted morality. This majority I was talking about have created laws that i like and follow in country where I live and some other places too. Dismissing it is also not a good tactics. AFAIK, pedophilia is restricted here in Germany. In most of countries too.
                          I can still disagree with censorship on moral grounds. A majority can come up with a consensus, but it can not ordain someones morality as morality is a personal commitment. It can set up laws which you can agree or not agree with, and yes to be a part of that nation you have to follow, but that does not mean you have to agree with them.

                          I am perfectly fine with protecting children from pedophiles through the use of the law, for instance. However, I can still be against people painting pedophiles as being innately evil just because they are born that way. It would be similar to thinking that Black Africans are inferior because Apartheid was the law in South Africa, or even more specifically that gays are evil because it is illegal to be gay in many countries.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by johnc View Post
                            What does any of this have to do with the Humble Indie Bundle?
                            How the hell should I know?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dimko View Post
                              People getting off is necessary evil. People who do , don't have sex, which is beneficial to them and others. I open myself here up on troll attack. Hitler.

                              Majority make up commonly accepted morality. This majority I was talking about have created laws that i like and follow in country where I live and some other places too. Dismissing it is also not a good tactics. AFAIK, pedophilia is restricted here in Germany. In most of countries too.
                              But it's market price, is it not? I get you - I'd love to have Carmageddon 2, but when I look at the violence I gasp. But how reasonable is it for me to expect someone to sell me the product they made at the level of violence I want? The beauty of the free market is that it requires consent...no one is forced to sell at a given level of violence, nobody is forced to buy at a certain level of violence. I can understand a "holy crap" reaction, but in a free market (assuming we're talking about a free market and not some socialist dictatorship), isn't it perfectly fine...and not outrageous? I'm glad the anger of some cannot supersede the rights of others to sell their own product as they see fit. How awful would it be to run a company if you couldn't?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by johnc View Post
                                What does any of this have to do with the Humble Indie Bundle?
                                There isn't much discussion possible of the humble bundle. It is just made of pure awesome.

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