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Valve's Gabe Says "Yes" To Steam Linux This Year

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  • #61
    Originally posted by blinxwang View Post
    This is not Id we're dealing with here; and Gabe is no benevolent, well-intentioned dictator like Carmack is.
    The selfsame id that stated flat out that there wouldn't be a Linux client for Rage? Carmack invests most of his time in HMD development and rocketry these days if his Twitter feed is any indication.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by blinxwang View Post
      Valve has literally no history of supporting open source or free software projects.
      Worse still, it looks very likely they'll require proprietary drivers for their games instead of contributing to free drivers.
      I don't like this one bit. This is not Id we're dealing with here; and Gabe is no benevolent, well-intentioned dictator like Carmack is.
      Is that a fact? I would much rather people pressure GOG into joining the Linux scene then. Their policies fall totally in line with those of Linux.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by blinxwang View Post
        Valve has literally no history of supporting open source or free software projects.
        I welcome Steam and Source coming to Linux - despite being closed and relying on DRM.

        What you stated is a fact but that may change hopefully (funding of open-source drivers for instance).
        On the other hand, Valve could have opened their (old) GoldSrc engine and I never understood why they didn't.
        The Quake engine is GPL'ed for ages (GoldSrc is based on the Q1 engine) and they didn't add that much.
        IIRC, a bone system, color depth enhancement and an advanced sound system.

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        • #64
          Hey. Joe Davison here.

          This is because I care. http://i.imgur.com/E380I.jpg

          Wouldn't have done this if I hadn't seen Anonymous Coward also posting on Slashdot with the same shit. That's not right. Anyway, hope this puts an end to that.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by FutureSuture View Post
            Is that a fact? I would much rather people pressure GOG into joining the Linux scene then. Their policies fall totally in line with those of Linux.
            Have GOG games become free/open source when I wasn't looking? Otherwise, they are as remote from the "Linux policies" as a trial version of WinRar. You can speculate that GOG games are more "free" because they have no DRM, do not engage in in-game microtransactions and do not install crapware on your machine, but that doesn't make them nearly free enough by the Linux standard. The fact that many of the Linux users here view GOG as "good enough" is more troubling than the expected/ongoing subversion of infrastructure: it shows that the subversion of minds has already happened.

            By your standard, if a game is not DRM'd and comes cheap, then it's good enough. How is that different from Android, again?.. (And yes, despite Android being partly open-source and based on a bunch of free software programs, it is by far and large not free software by itself - neither by spirit, nor by letter - as anyone who cares can easily observe. This much is obvious, and I won't be replying to comments challenging the obvious.)
            Last edited by kirillkh; 06-06-2012, 02:09 AM.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by kirillkh View Post
              Have GOG games become free/open source when I wasn't looking? Otherwise, they are as remote from the "Linux policies" as a trial version of WinRar. You can speculate that GOG games are more "free" because they have no DRM, do not engage in in-game microtransactions and do not install crapware on your machine, but that doesn't make them nearly free enough by the Linux standard. The fact that many of the Linux users here view GOG as "good enough" is more troubling than the expected/ongoing subversion of infrastructure: it shows that the subversion of minds has already happened.
              The most troubling thing in this thread is how seriously you take yourself. Funny enough, I almost missed it because you don't insist on prepending "GNU/" to every mention of "Linux"; makes you less obvious.

              You would do well to not forget the history of the kernel includes a period of time where it used Bitkeeper for source control. Why? Because it worked. It wasn't until they ended free support for it that git was born. You see, "Linux policies" are largely pragmatic considerations for what works in reality. This much is obvious if you've ever read any of Linus Torvalds' fairly large (at this point) body of work.

              I cannot and will not begrudge you your choice to adhere to a very limited view of freedom, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say that you are going to have few fast friends by attempting to play Gatekeeper to Freedom (A.K.A: Digital Rights Manager).

              Every user has different needs of their hardware and software.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                The most troubling thing in this thread is how seriously you take yourself. Funny enough, I almost missed it because you don't insist on prepending "GNU/" to every mention of "Linux"; makes you less obvious.
                I'm sorry, did I provoke you by presenting GOG less awesome than you'd like? That wasn't my point, anyway; in fact, I think GOG (like HumbleBundle, BTW) is a good trend in the gaming industry, given its present horrible state. But GNU(since you insist)/Linux is not about picking the most free of the non-free, it's about picking the free, period. This is in hope of building an ecosystem of completely free software, which at some point is hoped to cause a revolution in the way that the software is developed, and also out of belief that free software is the approach that benefits the end user the most. This is not the right place to argue about these ideas, but the point is you don't even have to fully support them (and I personally am not convinced that free software is the only way to go). If you even recognize the potential of these ideas (as I do), then you are interested in the "GNU/Linux" experiment going on without taking (pragmatic or not) turns on the way, which threaten to drive it away from its goal.

                Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                You would do well to not forget the history of the kernel includes a period of time where it used Bitkeeper for source control. Why? Because it worked. It wasn't until they ended free support for it that git was born. You see, "Linux policies" are largely pragmatic considerations for what works in reality. This much is obvious if you've ever read any of Linus Torvalds' fairly large (at this point) body of work.
                Not the first time I hear that argument, and each time I find it completely ridiculous. You're mixing means with the goals. The goal is to produce free software, not to be a junkie who refuses to live in the reality. Linus' actions were clearly moving the system towards the goal.

                Originally posted by Wyatt View Post
                I cannot and will not begrudge you your choice to adhere to a very limited view of freedom, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say that you are going to have few fast friends by attempting to play Gatekeeper to Freedom (A.K.A: Digital Rights Manager).
                If that is even true, it just means that Phoronix audience disrespects the hard work of programmers, who wrote their (audience's) favorite operating system and tools that they take for granted (by encouraging the subversion of the free software). I will leave it up to your conscience and will respect your opinion (as long as it's logical), but I don't need your permission to express mine.
                Last edited by kirillkh; 06-06-2012, 07:13 AM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by kirillkh View Post
                  I'm sorry, did I provoke you by presenting GOG less awesome than you'd like?
                  Not really.
                  But GNU(since you insist)
                  Not really.
                  Linux is not about picking the most free of the non-free, it's about picking the free, period.
                  Not really.
                  This is in hope of building an ecosystem of completely free software, which at some point is hoped to cause a revolution in the way that the software is developed
                  You're thinking of Hurd.
                  This is not the right place to argue about these ideas,
                  Really? Your actions belie your words; but sure, I'll feed you a little longer.
                  Not the first time I hear that argument,
                  Wait, an argument? Where do you see an argument? This isn't a situation where I believe something to be true and I present reasons to support my point. This is simply a thing that happened. So thoroughly did it happen, we have reams upon reams of archives, mirrored several times over, showing exactly how it happened and how it keeps happening; we could pick apart LKML messages from Linus for the rest of the decade if we really wanted, but I can't imagine it would take more than a few minutes for it to be obvious that the goal is something that works and works well. So single-minded is he in this pursuit, some elements of the security community still have latent umbrage related to his "masturbating monkeys" remark and the fracas that came with it.

                  You're mixing means with the goals. The goal is to produce free software, not to be a junkie who refuses to live in the reality.
                  Fun lesson about reality: people care about things that work and idealism takes a backseat when the chips are down. People don't use Linux on anything and everything because of the price or the licence. It's because it's pretty good at pretty much everything anyone sets out to do with it.
                  If that is even true, it just means that Phoronix audience disrespects the hard work of programmers, who wrote their (audience's) favorite operating system and tools that they take for granted (by encouraging the subversion of the free software). I will leave it up to your conscience and will respect your opinion, but I don't need your permission to express mine.
                  So failing to kick dirt at anyone you have deemed "not sufficiently free" is disrespecting developers. Genius.


                  Getting back to the real topic at hand, there's got to be a better way of verifying the proof/not-proof of this stuff than these ridiculous email screenshots with sticky notes. I don't expect the naysayers will ever be quashed entirely, but reducing the room for doubt would be nice.

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                  • #69
                    With its game-related articles, Phoronix seems to have attracted too much kids than is good for it.
                    Please, no more flaming, go hijack another topic.

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                    • #70
                      is it possible that maybe Valve can work with kwin and gnome to create a standard API call to disable compositing when gaming?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by kirillkh View Post
                        Have GOG games become free/open source when I wasn't looking? Otherwise, they are as remote from the "Linux policies" as a trial version of WinRar. You can speculate that GOG games are more "free" because they have no DRM, do not engage in in-game microtransactions and do not install crapware on your machine, but that doesn't make them nearly free enough by the Linux standard. The fact that many of the Linux users here view GOG as "good enough" is more troubling than the expected/ongoing subversion of infrastructure: it shows that the subversion of minds has already happened.

                        By your standard, if a game is not DRM'd and comes cheap, then it's good enough. How is that different from Android, again?.. (And yes, despite Android being partly open-source and based on a bunch of free software programs, it is by far and large not free software by itself - neither by spirit, nor by letter - as anyone who cares can easily observe. This much is obvious, and I won't be replying to comments challenging the obvious.)
                        Some games are free, yes, although not open source. I am not speculating whatsoever, I am assessing the situation objectively by comparing the offering with what the rest of the market has to offer and I find no better alternative. What you describe sounds like a very extreme view which thankfully many don't seem to share. Linux is great, but considering the current position Linux is in, being excessively demanding with no room for compromise, especially one as good as GOG, seems unwise.

                        By your standard, there will be little to no game support if a game is required to be open source as well as free, and games are what cause many to still dual boot Windows or not bother to boot Linux entirely. More game support, along with Linux flavors tending to be free and open source, could boost Linux into relevant market share on the desktop market. I would rather take an even middle ground as to opposed to being associated with either extreme.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by kirillkh View Post
                          With its game-related articles, Phoronix seems to have attracted too much kids than is good for it.
                          Please, no more flaming, go hijack another topic.
                          Please cease the condescending tone and just agree to disagree if you wish to longer participate. Thank you.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by boast View Post
                            is it possible that maybe Valve can work with kwin and gnome to create a standard API call to disable compositing when gaming?
                            Maybe it should be done with freedesktop.org instead of kwin and GNOME.

                            Also, maybe its just possible to trigger disable composting when a OpenGL application goes fullscreen?

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