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Miguel de Icaza Calls For More Mono, C# Games

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  • Miguel de Icaza Calls For More Mono, C# Games

    Phoronix: Miguel de Icaza Calls For More Mono, C# Games

    Miguel de Icaza presented this weekend at AltDevConf where he heavily promoted Mono and using C# for game developers...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTA1Njc

  • #2
    I think I slightly threw up.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by snuwoods View Post
      I think I slightly threw up.
      I did.

      Seriously.... Miguel de Icaza just needs to let C# die a natural death as nature intended.

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      • #4
        the mono project is a very important and beneficial project for the linux and open source community. but he is marketing it in the same light as java, html, or gtk. as if it is critical or central, or a legitimately useful tool to create with. what he and everyone else needs to realize is that mono is more akin to wine or samba. it is a tool to allow linux (or any other system in a similar disposition) to ingratiate into an otherwise hostile environment. it should be used to allow peoples existing .net code to run on linux or mac or whatever without a complete rewrite. to tell developers to go and make new linux centric applications or games with it is foolish at best.

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        • #5
          The CLR doesn't completely do away with memory problems. I monitor VMs running a mission-critical legacy application written in C# that starts off using ~70MB of memory and can bloat out to 1.5GB if it hasn't crashed for some other reason.

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          • #6
            Well, given that Miguel Icaza is now earning his living by selling Monotouch and Mono for Android then obviously he will be feverishly pushing for more games being made with Mono/C#.

            Not that there's anything wrong with that, but one should be aware that his message of how great Mono is for development is directly linked with his way of making money and thus hardly an objective opinion.

            Still, despite the performance shortcomings of vm based managed languages like Mono there's certainly a large spectrum of games in which the loss of performance versus that of native code won't matter at all and then Mono/Java will do just as well.

            The guy loves his Mono, so I hope he can successfully make a living out of it. Just as long as he stays away from the Linux desktop

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            • #7
              What happenend to Java, and Python and Haskell, all of which are better languages for writing a game in and don't require manual memory management?

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              • #8
                For that matter, what happened to using C++ in a sane OO way, which makes manual memory management pretty painless in most cases?

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                • #9
                  What about Vala for games?

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                  • #10
                    The big question in my mind is if C# is the worst language ever, or if its still java, I'm not counting visual basic here just because it was never put out like other languages as the 'language to end all languages'

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                    • #11
                      java is pretty awesome. it has its flaws, like basically all the other languages and environments. probably the best part about java is there actually is different implementations of it, even openjre has a couple different runtime options. im pretty sure you can use gjc and compile native code.

                      also, the swing gui has gotten a LOT better. it now can use native toolkits to integrate better with the native system. swing on gtk looks pretty gtkish from last time i checked. and ive seen images of it on windows looking pretty good.

                      where it lacks is desktop api's. mostly it has no native java api's for 3d, gpgpu or video. you can use some opengl bindings or some media file libraries bondings but there is no java 3d api's or java video api's.

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                      • #12
                        c# is an awesome language - i'm less sold on Mono

                        And you can definitely still have memory leaks in c# apps, it just makes it less likely to happen. One annoyance i have is that it's way to easy to forget to dispose something that's IDisposable. In c++, you know you always have to free everything, but c# makes you complacent until something comes along and you don't realize you have to free it up. It seems like a compiler warning in such a case would be beneficial.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oneman View Post
                          The big question in my mind is if C# is the worst language ever, or if its still java, I'm not counting visual basic here just because it was never put out like other languages as the 'language to end all languages'
                          If java is SUCH a terrible language then WHY is its JVM so versatile and useful? The java JVM can be used as the runtime for a dozen different languages, and java itself is pretty much just JVM assembly language.

                          I work with a LOT of different computer languages, and I gotta say that all the ones that are still around after all these years, well, the reason they didn't die, is because someone is actually finding them to be useful. Sure TCL is miserable, but then again you can't beat the simplicity of expect. Perl encourages you to write code that looks like line noise, but it sure is useful in a pinch when you need something more than a shell script.

                          C# is a language without a home, without a purpose. It fills no need that's not already filled by another existing language. It's nothing more than a knee-jerk artifact of a response to Sun, yet another typical Microsoft day-late-dollar-short approach to business. They are the only "going concern" that takes it seriously and we KNOW that Microsoft freely abandons technology when it doesn't suit their purpose. Frankly I just don't see the point in spending mind cycles on something with such dubious future prospects.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by frantaylor View Post
                            C# is a language without a home, without a purpose. It fills no need that's not already filled by another existing language. It's nothing more than a knee-jerk artifact of a response to Sun, yet another typical Microsoft day-late-dollar-short approach to business.
                            Well, you already described it's purpose, a Microsoft version of Java, one which they can define the standard for themselves and sell tools for. That said it's interesting seeing Microsoft going back to strongly pushing native code for VS 2012: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Goin...ingNative-2012

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
                              Well, you already described it's purpose, a Microsoft version of Java, one which they can define the standard for themselves and sell tools for. That said it's interesting seeing Microsoft going back to strongly pushing native code for VS 2012: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Goin...ingNative-2012
                              C# definitely has a purpose on the MS side of things, and it's not going anywhere. I'm less sure that Mono has a purpose on non-windows platforms, though.

                              I don't think anyone can take a serious look at C# and Java, and come out thinking Java is superior - unless they are concerned about being cross-platform. That's where C# fails.

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