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CoreBreach On Linux Is Ready, May Go Open-Source

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  • CoreBreach On Linux Is Ready, May Go Open-Source

    Phoronix: CoreBreach On Linux Is Ready, May Go Open-Source

    More than a month ago I was the first to write about the CoreBreach racing game coming to Linux. Well, there's some more interesting news to deliver today...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTAzMTg

  • #2
    At the very least their game will last much longer (i.e. will work on newer distros for many years) if they open it up. Plus people will package it for every software channel, etc. They can build and maintain a community around their game for no cost after it reached its end of (commercial) life.

    I'm happy that more companies are realising that open-sourcing your code is not all bad and lost profit.

    Comment


    • #3
      DRM

      I won't pay for anything with DRM. Even if the game itself doesn't have DRM the availability via those third party services means you are stuck with them which is also a form of lock in.

      Being open source depends critically on the license chosen and is why people make distinctions with free(dom) software. The Id approach was to make the actual code GPL but the game assets are not open/free.

      Comment


      • #4
        first what are we talking about - the possibility of putting around 22 KLOC 3D engine and game code (mostly Objective-C 2.0, some C, some shaders, some python) under the GPL.

        the game data files can't be "open sourced" because of legal reasons (licensed material).

        the way we see it:

        (+) open sourcing is The Right Thing To Do (tm) - nearly all code produced at CoreCode is currently BSD licensed.
        (+) enables outside contributions and enables support of systems like BSD that we can't support ourselves

        (-) may actually be difficult getting the game into linux distributions if the game data still is not "free"
        (-) source code is "cutting edge" and difficult-to-build since it requires newer packages than are available in distributions at the moment
        (-) problems with the online high-scores and cheaters!

        the main questions are:
        is there any interest in getting the game open source at all?
        since we want the project to at least cover the expenses we are contemplating open-sourcing when the expenses are met - kinda making the source code and accompanying positive long term effects another incentive to buy. does that sound reasonable and what kind of "formalization" would be needed for this "deal"?
        is there also some interest in having the game-data free-as-in-beer later on? e.g. another deal, the data will be freeware once and if the project has made some specific % profit so the whole thing can enter (restricted) linux repositories?

        >At the very least their game will last much longer
        i'll take this as a +1 for interest

        >I won't pay for anything with DRM
        well the game is DRM free, please don't call the fact that the game is currently only available on some online distribution platforms which you may not like "DRM". we've also submitted the game to the ubuntu software center which hardly seems like a lock-in. anyway, offering the game through platforms like Desura instead of selling it on the Website is a matter of resources and not wanting to lock-in someone. if someone knows about a pre-made free platform for selling software like the "Humble" Bundle uses, including handling of payments and downloads, just let us know ;-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting ideas, but i dont think that it matters when your game needs newer packages. You can always compile your local ones and newer distributions will ship it. The demo data could be packaged as well to test it.

          Comment


          • #6
            >You can always compile your local ones and newer distributions will ship it.

            yes its a "problem" that will go away sometime. no distribution today carries libobjc2 at all, but this could also change


            >The demo data could be packaged as well to test it.

            yes true, though it needs to be considered that it should be easy for people who have the full bought data to play with a distribution-provided binary. i guess some changes need to be made there but nothing too difficult.

            Comment


            • #7
              Really, do we think about the same package? It is there since lenny...

              http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/libobjc2

              Comment


              • #8
                some distributions have a package they call "libobjc2" but this isn't actually the real libobjc2 (version number below 2)

                http://svn.gna.org/svn/gnustep/libs/...k/ANNOUNCE.1.6

                i think only gentoo has the real one.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CoreCode View Post
                  well the game is DRM free, please don't call the fact that the game is currently only available on some online distribution platforms which you may not like "DRM".
                  The "only available" is the issue. This means use is restricted to where those are available for practical purposes. This is also a good argument for open sourcing the code. It means that platforms can make it available and they'll worry about libraries and other compatibilities. This completely removes all of that friction from user consideration. And someone is bound to port it to Android :-)

                  On the game data side what I suggest you do is make a small amount of the data "open source". You'd need a demo anyway so have enough that anyone can get the code and a useful subset of data to play, hack and improve. Then you sell the full game experience (data), future episodes etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i will buy it in the next humble Indie bundle 5!

                    soo please put this game into an humble indie bundle !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      +1 from me.

                      I do think you should hold out until you make however much money you want however. As for the "deal" you want to make about reaching a certain goal than releasing the code/assets, I have no idea becuase I am no expert on "legal" matters which that sounds like.

                      All in all I think the best thing to happen to the game right now would be the ability to mod it. Add our own textures/ships/weapons/gameplay/etc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Just tested the demo (64 bit) on Kanotix (KDE 4.4.5), after install of libsdl-mixer1.2 package it started, but there are some bugs.

                        1) It is often hidden behind other windows on start (via commandline).
                        2) When you change settings and press minimize (instead of finish) it is impossible do do anything with the gui anymore, not even close possible.
                        3) Why on earth are no gamepads supported, at least xbox 360 pads should work out of the box (even on Linux).

                        For the demo download: you can use even a zip package for win,linux (32+64 bit) just like others do when you create it on linux the permissions are stored. It is useless when you need to dl it again to compare it to wine or when you want to use 32 bit, when 99% of the files are the same.

                        The demo levels look like a basic white variant of wipeout but well, maybe somebody likes it

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The "only available" is the issue. This means use is restricted to where those are available for practical purposes. This is also a good argument for open sourcing the code. It means that platforms can make it available and they'll worry about libraries and other compatibilities. This completely removes all of that friction from user consideration. And someone is bound to port it to Android :-)
                          i don't see how open sourcing is gonna help with the issue that you would never buy something from desura/gameolith/ubuntusoftwarecenter. even if the game code is open source and theoretically available from linux distribution repositories, you'd still need to buy the game data from somewhere if you want the FULL game.

                          also i'm not sure what you actually want or if you ever proposed a "solution". you would never buy from desura etc, ok fine, how and where would buying be ok with you? only directly from our website with no registration like with the "humble" bundle? i already said we would actually *like* that, its a matter of resources to create such an infrastructure (especially with payments and download authorization + bandwith).

                          On the game data side what I suggest you do is make a small amount of the data "open source". You'd need a demo anyway so have enough that anyone can get the code and a useful subset of data to play, hack and improve. Then you sell the full game experience (data), future episodes etc.
                          as previously explained the game data can never be "open source" because of licensed content, but it could be free-as-in-beer. the demo version of the game is already "freeware" so it theoretically become available in something like ubuntu multiverse.


                          soo please put this game into an humble indie bundle !
                          we've already contacted them but not heard back so far. additionally the "humble" bundle only carries games that are already quite old and have been quite successful so there is some time&work ahead of us before it can happen anyway.


                          +1 from me.
                          thanks for your input

                          All in all I think the best thing to happen to the game right now would be the ability to mod it. Add our own textures/ships/weapons/gameplay/etc.
                          you can already create new racetracks. there is no possibility for adding ships yet, because it would be unfair in the online-highscores, but i guess we could just ignore highscores from non-standard ships. yes, open sourcing would definitely help the mod-ability which would be great. but so far no one has even made a racetrack yet ;-)


                          Just tested the demo (64 bit) on Kanotix (KDE 4.4.5), after install of libsdl-mixer1.2 package it started, but there are some bugs.
                          thanks for trying it out!

                          1) It is often hidden behind other windows on start (via commandline).
                          couldn't reproduce it here, but i've written it on the list to investigate

                          2) When you change settings and press minimize (instead of finish) it is impossible do do anything with the gui anymore, not even close possible.
                          nice catch thanks, i've found a workaround for the issue and also reported the bug up-stream to gnustep.

                          3) Why on earth are no gamepads supported, at least xbox 360 pads should work out of the box (even on Linux).
                          but gamepads (and steering wheels) ARE supported! gamepad support uses SDL, so every gamepad that works in other SDL based games should work here too. dumb question but did you actually configure the gamepad in the controls preferences? if it works in other SDL games but still not in CB, please write me at <corebreach@corecode.at> with some details.

                          Code:
                          For the demo download: you can use even a zip package for win,linux (32+64 bit) just like others do when you create it on linux the permissions are stored. It is useless when you need to dl it again to compare it to wine or when you want to use 32 bit, when 99% of the files are the same.
                          actually i am not a big fan of these multi-platform ZIPs they are actually quite unfriendly for new users with a lot of un-relevant files lying around leading to confusion which should be used. also the directory structures are actually different on win32/linux so it would probably require symlinking or some trickery. and whats a download of 130 MB in this day and age? i agree that the linux 32 and 64 bit packages could/should be merged...will do so when i get some time.

                          The demo levels look like a basic white variant of wipeout but well, maybe somebody likes it
                          well, as i said each track has a different look, check the screenshots or the gameplay video i actually choose the demo-track although its visually not the most exiting one, but because its a middle ground in terms of difficulty/speed (a slow track would lead people to believe the game is slow and boring, a fast track would be unplayable without training on the other tracks).

                          thanks for the input everyone, i'm now on a short X-mas vacation but keep the feedback coming
                          Happy holidays!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I just started catching up with my RSS feeds again, sorry if I'm a little late to the discussion.

                            First of all, I'd like to thank you and the entire company for supporting Linux, even more so for reaching out to the Linux community and I hope you guys will be around for a long time!

                            Although I haven't had the chance to play your game I've read the Phoronix articles about it.

                            I think an open source game engine and free/paid content is the way to go, as it seems to have worked well for the Quake series and kept the engine living longer than I ever could had imagined.

                            Perhaps the game could be split into several pieces, like this (inspired by the Debian package naming scheme):
                            corebreach-bin (engine itself)
                            corebreach-common (platform independent files)
                            corebreach-demo (demo files, artwork, levels, etc. depends on -bin and -common)
                            corebreach-full (full game. depends on -bin and -common)
                            corebreach-server (dedicated LAN game server, perhaps without anti-cheat)
                            corebreach-src (source code of everything in -bin and -common)
                            corebreach-buildscripts (helper scripts that will make it easier to compile the game engine. suggests -demo, depends on -src)

                            This way I think you'd be able to get accepted into the Debian repositories quicker (except for -full, depends on free/paid).

                            As for anti-cheat, people who desperately wants to cheat would mess around in RAM looking for whatever they want to use.
                            Server anti-cheat is the only thing I know of which holds out in the long run. See if the ship passes a sanity check.

                            Thanks again for supporting the Linux community, I wish you the best of luck!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For possible alternate DRM-free distribution channels, Indievania seems like a good bet.

                              Comment

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