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  • #31
    Are ou sure GIMP is not enough?

    [QUOTE=powerhouse;258460]@Lemrouch: Interesting setup! Thanks for sharing.
    I would happily migrate to Linux only, but there is no professional photo editing solution available on Linux. So I'm kinda stuck with Windows (though I could move to Mac, but that would be really expensive).

    GIMP and Inskscape are not enough for you?

    If Pixar can make excellent movies with Linux, perhaps you can make more than 90% of your work, for those other little things that Photoshop does that GIMP doesn't you can use a Virtual installation hard disk or partitions to dual boot and where you will not use the internet except for system and programs upgrades.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mitcoes View Post
      GIMP and Inskscape are not enough for you?
      To the best of my knowledge, GIMP doesn't support more than 8 bits per channel. I think this will come when GIMP moves completely to GEGL. Since it already uses it partially maybe it also provides partial support for deep colors too. But I doubt it. Does anyone know for certain what is the current status in this respect?

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      • #33
        mitcoes: Thanks for the reply.

        I did try them. Last time I used Gimp it only supported 8 bits per color channel. This is not enough and would cause image degradation when doing contrast enhancements etc.

        I currently use a dual boot setup but it's inconvenient. I plan to use Windows 7 and the photo editing applications in a VM and hope that will work. The big problem is that currently I can't access my graphics card from within a VM (Windows) in order to do screen calibration and profile upload to the display (my screen is able to do color correction in 14 bit inside the screen, so I need to be able to upload the profile via the DVI port of the graphics card). It's not a setup many people will have, but it allows me to get very consistent results when editing photos.

        It doesn't mean the applications you mentioned are bad, but at least Gimp doesn't meet my needs. P.S.: Gimp may be fine for web output.

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        • #34
          Near future GIMP 3 with full GEGL perhaps will work

          Everyday you learn a new thing, thanks to you I have just read GIMP is working in this with its migration to GEGL

          http://docs.gimp.org/2.6/en/gimp-config-use-gegl.html

          http://www.gimp.org/

          For v2.6 we made an optional GEGL-based implementation of color adjustment tools, and for upcoming v2.8 we implemented optional projection rendering via GEGL. But nobody really had evaluated the amount of the work to be done in order to finalize this transition. Until just now.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by powerhouse View Post
            I would happily migrate to Linux only, but there is no professional photo editing solution available on Linux. So I'm kinda stuck with Windows (though I could move to Mac, but that would be really expensive).
            While the upfront investment into a Mac would be higher, I assure you that it would balance out in 3-4 years. Ping me if you want to hear the sales pitch. I'd give it here, but it would cause the thread to degenerate into an argument between a guy who has a SoloFlex stored in his attic and a guy with a membership to the YMCA that has never been used. Don't worry though, Macs run Linux just fine.

            F

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            • #36
              mitcoes: Thanks for pointing to this Gimp news. I will try it, but to be honest, there were a lot more things where Gimp could improve. I did use Gimp for the occasional web stuff, though.

              russofris: To be honest (hope I don't get flamed here), I thought about Mac. I've already placed the order for the PC and I sincerely hope I won't regret it. I write this on a Macbook, by the way.

              A Mac would be almost perfect (I still prefer Linux over the Mac OS), but it would cost me almost twice as much. And I wasn't sure how to run Linux alongside OS X (Parallels Workstation perhaps?). You are probably right, it would have paid in 3-4 years from now.

              Today I learned that the Windows 7 license will cost me a fortune, cause I can't use the OEM license for a VM install .

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              • #37
                i don't get the point why OS X would be so much better than Linux as host os. But one thing is definitely wrong in your statement. On the Windows 7 OEM sticker on a pc you get a standard serial you can definitely use for a vm without any hacks. Your W7 preinstall definitely does NOT use this serial but a combination of a bios token (SLIC) together with a certificate matching the SLIC and an OEM serial. The funny thing is that the OEM serial is not bound to the SLIC and you can basically use any OEM serial, that means you can even use anytime upgrade to change the serial to ultimate (even on a netbook with starter). The whole W7 protection is useless, therefore MS wants to use different OEM serials for EACH system and not for every vendor together with W8. The result will be that you have to enter the serial from your sticker (unlogical because it is no oem serial) or the vendor has to "boot" the system and enter it for you instead of just cloning the hd. Not sure if all vendors are happy about that For testing i definitely prefer using W8 CP, much less trouble...

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Kano View Post
                  i don't get the point why OS X would be so much better than Linux as host os.
                  The simple answer is "workflow". It's just easier, faster, straight forward, and the fruits of my labor look better. See if you can throw together a Hackintosh for a week or two with iLife/iWork (beg/borrow/steal).

                  The drawback is that there are fewer ways to customize any particular workflow. The other downside is having to learn to accept that the previous workflow you used was completely wrong. Switching to an iMac hurt my pride more than my wallet.

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                  • #39
                    When you think of iLife/iMovie then you definitely will miss Bluray support. No mac has got a BD. When you want to use more professional tools wine should be enough. I think google payed for wine support of those apps, you can even run office with wine.

                    http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePhotoshop

                    I don't get the point whats to great about those simple iLife/iWork tools... Maybe try picasa or digikam instead of iPhoto. gimp seems to be overkill to replace it. Also iWork seems to be a wrong choice, most likely less users than LibreOffice. Most pro apps can be used using wine, of course not those beginner apps which are mac only. If wine pure is too complicated for you try cxoffice. Usually pure wine can run the same apps, you just get a simple gui around it. I only use winetricks...

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Desti View Post
                      Cloud streaming games are designed to steal consumer rights and destroy the homebrew mod scene.
                      It's very much something many consumers want. It removes the need for any kind of expensive hardware; in fact, OnLive is in works to have the service integrated with many TV set (e.g., like Netflix and Hulu and so on have already done). That means that in the near future, many gamers will be able to play AAA PC-quality games without needing to drop a cent on extra hardware besides a controller (either on OnLive controller or a keyboard/mouse). Even if you get a separate OnLive box, it's far more portable than an XBox or LAN PC or so on and doesn't require you to tote around a bunch of discs or wires or cables, so if you're on vacation visiting family or something you don't have to give up your games while you're away. And while many publishers don't (yet) support it, OnLive also allows trials and rentals of games for people who just want to try something out before committing to it.

                      I know that the OnLive folks are working on mod support, as well. They absolutely want to support it, because for many games the modding community makes the games _tons_ of money, and the folks are OnLive are of course gamers themselves and want all the cool features they can manage.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Kano View Post
                        When you think of iLife/iMovie then you definitely will miss Bluray support. No mac has got a BD. When you want to use more professional tools wine should be enough. I think google payed for wine support of those apps, you can even run office with wine.

                        http://wiki.winehq.org/AdobePhotoshop

                        I don't get the point whats to great about those simple iLife/iWork tools... Maybe try picasa or digikam instead of iPhoto. gimp seems to be overkill to replace it. Also iWork seems to be a wrong choice, most likely less users than LibreOffice. Most pro apps can be used using wine, of course not those beginner apps which are mac only. If wine pure is too complicated for you try cxoffice. Usually pure wine can run the same apps, you just get a simple gui around it. I only use winetricks...
                        Re: BD support
                        Plug in an external BD device. Playback is not native (yet) and requires a third party player. Content composition can be handled by iMovie (or Finalcut). Burning to BD requires a 3rd party app. There's been speculation of BD in the 2012 iMac lineup, but there's also been equal speculation that Apple is going to do-away with optical disks in favor of net-streaming. As a technologist, I understand that we are nearing the end of the age of optical-disks being a contemporary distribution medium. I just don't know if we're all ready for it yet. Even on my old 1080p Panasonic plasma, I can see the quality difference between BD and streamed media. My guess is that BD will die the moment someone figures out how to get comparable quality at an acceptable bitrate.

                        Re: IPhoto
                        On the photo side, I was able to accomplish more with iPhoto in two days than I did with Picasa in 4 years. The difference was that I didn't have to learn to do anything, I simply did it. There was nothing to figure out. While I do not foresee myself ever needing Photoshop, I did install Apeture, which helped me give life to some of scans from the huge-box-of-pictures that my mother had in her attic. Speaking of which, I found a charming one of myself at age 2 in just a diaper and batman-mask. Some things never change.

                        Re:
                        iWork is great for those that do not require a full-on Office suite. It's targeted at the same users that MS tried to target with their MS-Works crapware. Think of it as K-Office, or whatever is called now. If you require a full office suite, you can take your pick (MS-Office, Libreoffice, etc all run fine). Try to understand that MS has brainwashed you into thinking you need a full-featured Office suite at home and for school. You probably don't. You definitely don't need one to make bake-sale fliers, resumes, brochures, compose written academic work, etc. Full featured office suites often give me worse results than a lesser suite with a better workflow and templates. If I look at a couple of the projects I have composed with Pages, I would be hard-pressed to find a way to produce the same quality in Word/Writer.

                        All in all, it's really no better or worse than PC. It's just different. It's simple. How to do things is often obvious and isn't buried in a ribbon or tiny black arrow in the corner of a grey box with some indecipherable picture on it. I spend less time figuring out how to do something (and often learning the wrong way) and more time doing actual work.

                        F
                        Last edited by russofris; 04-20-2012, 01:32 PM.

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                        • #42
                          @Kano:

                          Regarding Mac versus PC, I don't think it's only the applications that make the difference. I bought a Macbook (the most basic model) about 2 years ago. It took a little time getting used to it, as it's different from Windows. But I also learned to appreciate the hardware design.

                          Examples:
                          1. Battery life: I managed to deplete my Macbook battery ONCE. It usually lasts at least 6 hours of intensive use, with reduced brightness even 8-9 hours. I haven't seen anything like that with Windows notebooks, unless it's a low powered, tiny screen netbook. In fact my wife's new netbook doesn't last that long on batteries.

                          2. Power cable connection: With my previous notebook it happened twice that someone tripped over the power cable with the result that the notebook crashed onto the floor. It was pure luck that it continued working. No chance with my Macbook - the power cable connector is magnetic, it's doesn't use one of those cheap 10 cent sockets and plugs that all the rest of the bunch use.

                          Just two examples of good engineering. I've met people who use their Macbook for 7-8 years now and it still works with current software, at useful speed. My Windows notebooks I bought 6 years ago run Linux for the past 2-3 years since the latest SPs (service packs) and updates and whatsoever (maybe viruses or other malware, though I paid a fortune for antivirus etc. software) turned them into useless heaps of junk. At least with Linux I was able to extend their life, one is even working 24x7 as a server.

                          In my opinion it's not only the software that makes a Mac unique, it's also the hardware.

                          With regard to applications: I tried Picasa, Fspot, and whatever you mentioned - it's nice for snapshots, not for professional results. I need tools that allow me to selectively enhance pictures, including selective sharpening etc. In short, if the tool doesn't support masks, it's useless. Also, any software with 8 bit per channel doesn't cut it. I shoot RAW format and my camera delivers 14 bit color depth (though 12 bit are usually more than enough even for intensive contrast enhancements such as tonal contrast).

                          Which brings me to the question: Is it possible to run Mac OS-X within kvm, Virtualbox, Xen or whatever?

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                          • #43
                            Did you try digikam as well? I don't have got the money to buy a macbook, but the keyboard layout is something i absolutely hate as im used to german pc105 layout. Of course i could adopt it, but just for 1 system thats stupid. Btw. there are so many hacks that allows os x to run on native hardware without an apple logo it should be a piece of cake to find out what is needed for a vm. In most cases you will have to override the vesa modes to add the correct one for your monitor size, thats not really hard to do, but running the system with vesa is definitely not the optimal environment. I don't think that iPhoto/iWork is needed at all, but if somebody can no live without it just use it. Just to try os x most likely nobody needs to buy a mac...

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                            • #44
                              I tried digikam as well, but it was some time ago (perhaps 2-3 years) and things may have changed. As I said, I'm looking for professional-grade photo editing software. So far I haven't found anything on Linux that would make me want to switch to that Linux application. I really wish there was, as I prefer Linux for everything else I do.

                              About Mac hardware: My Macbook keyboard looks pretty standard. I use 3 languages with 3 different keyboards, including German.

                              I did some search on OS-X installations either directly on non-Mac hardware, or within a VM. Both seems possible. The Mac OS-X also costs a fraction of Microsoft Windows 7, though the Apple EULA requires me to use it on Mac hardware.

                              An appeal to Apple: Change your EULA and allow users to install your OS-X on ANY hardware or VM, with a disclaimer that Apple is not responsible for fitness and/or performance on non-Apple hardware. That could well wipe out Windows for all but enterprise customers (think about all the people who can then turn an ordinary PC into a cool looking Mac - at least on screen).

                              The reason I'm so interested in OS-X is that all the software I need is also available on Mac. With the license keys I have I can simply download and activate a Mac version. Generally speaking many if not most of the applications available on Windows are also available on Mac.

                              Finally, I'd rather burn my money in a camp fire instead of spending almost $400 on a MS Win 7 pro retail license, which is required despite the fact that I'm buying a new computer which would let me have a Windows pre-install at 1/2 that price.

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                              • #45
                                People are already doing this, including me:
                                http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/...irtual-machine

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