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Unigine OilRush Barely Does 800 Sales To Date

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  • #46
    Originally posted by miles View Post
    Only 700 Linux preorders...

    At first I though that maybe it was because the readership of Phoronix amounted to only that much, then I read the comments in this thread.

    It's completely out to lunch to see so many self proclaimed Linux gamers (they sound more like Windows gamers, but anyway) offer so many rationalizations on why they can't find 20 bucks to support a company that has done more for Linux gaming than any I can think of.

    Unigine has released all their benchmarks for Linux, when others just keep to DirectX and Windows. That doesn't come cheap. They've also got a solid track record for updates and supporting the Linux ecosystem - which is impressive considering how their engine can stress a system, and how Linux hasn't been stressed anywhere as much before. That's a far better track record than any indie I can think of - they release a world respected professional engine, and they do it in a way no other indie would even be able to dream of.

    They've also offered their engine to promising indie developpers, on the condition they release a Linux version of their game.

    Basically, even if the game beta wasn't offered with the preorder, that would still be enough to warrant supporting them - Oil Rush aside, they've already done far more to support Linux gaming than your 20$ could ever buy.

    However, it's not all. The game runs beautifully at this time of development, and while they need to add content, it's not the hard part now - considering they have something solid at this time, and their track record of technical expertise, trusting them to add more maps is a no brainer.

    At 20$, the game is also really well priced for a tower defense game. Tower defense is a really popular genre those days, so they're targeting some of the largest user base they could get with a game this price. Other tower defense games are similarly priced, yet their graphics don't hold a candle to Oil Rush, and Oil Rush gameplay is also deeper. It's an incredible deal.

    It's also not only a day one Linux support, but prerelease and beta support as well. Most indie only target Windows, then port to Linux, so in the best case you don't have much access to the beta, in the worst you're waiting a few months after release for the Linux port.

    We don't have much games running on Linux because the Linux market is the worst you could target, and I'm afraid Unigine is realising that, along with any indie or big brand developer who would have the curiosity to read shame of a thread. Look at the Mac market, even when they didn't have much they kept buying games and supporting what they had, though the ports were a disgrace and the games niche games they weren't interested in. The X3: Reunion Mac port is a joke (not even a port, more like the Windows game running through a subpar wrapper) and was priced more than the X3 native Linux port from LGP, yet it was received far better than all the slack the Linux port got from being more expensive than bargain-bin Windows games.

    When you're buying a renowned game that already brought more than a million dollars to its developers (Minecraft), you're not supporting Linux gaming, you're just getting what you want, like any other customer. When you're buying the HIB for more than what Windows gamers paid for, you aren't supporting Linux gaming - you're getting a bargain, since even if you're only going to try one of those games a few hours, you're already getting your 15$ worth.

    Oil Rush is more like a bargain for all you got in return (the engines benchmarks on Linux, the gift of this engine for other Linux indie game teams, and the game itself, which is already hinting at something better than most of the other 20$ tower defence games). And it's like what, two movie tickets, or a half-decent meal at a restaurant?

    Maybe you can't part with the money, because your conscience tells you so. So what? Does it mean you have to be a prick, and backstab a game you haven't even seriously tried? Unigine is doing right all the things you guys used before as excuse for not supporting previous Linux native games - day one Linux support (better actually), same price as on Windows, and similar price to other games in the competition (better price actually if you consider you get a deeper gameplay and far superior graphics). From a company that has already done more to support Linux than we Linux gamers could have ever dreamt of.
    Actually I doubt I've ever asked for crappy games for Linux, what I(and I guess most of the other people you're talking about) complained about was that top tier games weren't made for Linux too, that's all. The solution to that is to make a top tier game for Linux too, period. Otherwise I'm simply gonna keep my Windows partition that I never use except for games. That said, I wish the best to their game engine, it's hopefully very good and they'll find a great market for it, sure I hope so!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by miles View Post
      It's completely out to lunch to see so many self proclaimed Linux gamers (they sound more like Windows gamers, but anyway) offer so many rationalizations on why they can't find 20 bucks to support a company that has done more for Linux gaming than any I can think of.
      Like it or not, being a "game on linux" is not the only factor that falls into play when purchasing product. People still have to determine if it would be a game that they would play. Please don't think that just because something is on linux that it deserves to have a "linux church collection" of peoples money. The majority of people out there don't buy games because it runs on their platform of choice, it is quite the opposite. They use a platform that offers the software they would like to run. The bottom realistic line is that most people pay for software that they think they will enjoy or use first then secondly they then look if they have a platform that they can run it on.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by miles View Post
        Only 700 Linux preorders...

        When you're buying a renowned game that already brought more than a million dollars to its developers (Minecraft), you're not supporting Linux gaming, you're just getting what you want, like any other customer.
        Well, why shouldn't I get what I want? This argument is really bad. If I bought a game that was released for Linux, this does support Linux gaming. Or is your definition of support to buy whatever is released for Linux whether one actually wants it or not?

        This is a business offer and the folks at Unigine most certainly want me (and whoever they can get) as a customer. Realize that they are making this game (and their most AWESOME engine) for multiple platforms. They didn't develop Linux support out of some sense of philanthropy. They hope to sell licenses, and cross platform compatibility sweetens the deal. Oil Rush is pretty. It's just not my thing. I don't own copies of Civilization or Starcraft either.

        When you're buying the HIB for more than what Windows gamers paid for, you aren't supporting Linux gaming - you're getting a bargain, since even if you're only going to try one of those games a few hours, you're already getting your 15$ worth.
        You have an interesting definition of "support." Consequently, I would appreciate you getting out of my wallet. You have no idea what I paid for the HIB. I believe your statements say more about your own habits than they do mine.

        Does it mean you have to be a prick, and backstab a game you haven't even seriously tried?
        What part of "I don't like this kind of game, and should not be guilt-tripped into buying it" did you miss? This wasn't about the game not being done or being done poorly (Although several people in the comments section gave me that impression of the current build.) I take issue with "Boo hoo, they haz only sold 800 preorder in a week" appeal to pity.

        Comment


        • #49
          Just a few words ...

          What about http://www.desura.com/ for 'Oil Rush'?

          They say on there page:
          "The Desura client currently only works on Windows PCs. We are working on support for Mac and Linux. To be notified when support is added, please provide your email:"
          So they will (hopefully) faster be ready for Linux (and Mac) as Steam (and co.).

          Could be a good platform.
          It also has mod- and development-sections. Good for modding 'Oil Rush'.

          ----

          Just want to say, that Unigine is not a small fish anymore. Heaven is part on many benchmark-tours. People know what their engine is capable of.

          Also many games don't give demos. But people are buying.
          Their are some big drm-dongles on some games -- and people are buying them.

          This game has no direct demo. But I would say that Heaven would be a good indicator for seeing if the actual game could run on ones own platform.
          This game has also no drm and (what was a big point for me, and it seems many other) it has a linux-version. Also I hope that the mod-sdk will be good and allows also to make a total conversion because this is far the best engine now with linux-support. (The mod-sdk will come with the game-release ? Or are there chances to see it earlier ?)

          One buy and get all versions ? Windows - Linux - Mac - Android - PS3 ?
          No. It would be nice to have Win and Lin version with a onetimebuy.
          But hey - its "just" 14,33 / 19,95$.
          The people from Overgrowth want 29,95$ for PreOrder. I got Lugaru HD and played it. Was fun. Overgrowth will definitely be interesting.
          So, 'Oil Rush' have a better engine. Should they also take 29,95$ ? Maybe a bit more ? Around 39,95$ ? Maybe for that amount they could give you a Win and Lin version. But would you buy it ? Why then not buy a Win and a Lin version ?
          But why should you buy two versions? Test with Heaven what should be better for you. Phoronix often showed that the Unigine-engine is nearly the same on both os.

          --

          It's just like with the HumbleIndiBundle.
          People get what they buy. Adding free features afterwards makes them angry. That's so odd. I got the first and later the second. Told a friend and he bought the second. Then came the free gifts and I wasn't angry to get something for free - I was happy for my friend because he missed the first bundle.
          Just be happy with what you payed for -- be even more happy if you get something for free.
          Just be happy.

          In this case: There are games from especially LGP which just work on linux. No windows version included. You can go out in shops and buy games and get just the windows-version even if on steam you could get the mac-version too. You can't claim something someone else does for everything.

          Now you can get some Sega-games from steam but you can't demand that they should work on a real sega-console.

          Steam will be on PS3 - so maybe they also bundle a bigger box so that you buy once and play on mac, win and ps3. Would you claim that for all games from that on ?

          Get a Linux distribution, install it. You will see lots of apps.
          Why do you don't claim the same happening on Windows?

          Jeah, I bought Penumbra-Collection for Linux and played it on Linux. No problems and i was happy with it. Same thing with Amnesia. Bought the pre-order-linux one and got as gift the windows-version but just played the linux version.

          Don't see linux as another windows.
          Try to see a pc with linux a different machine as a pc with windows.
          A xbox, ps3, wii -- all are just regular (some even crappy) pcs. You can install linux or what the heck else. But you buy games for all these consoles.
          So just try to think of linux as another console.

          (Hole thing said with onlive and gaikai in mind there will be a grey zone where all pcs will eventually get together and you in some future just buy one game and play it everywhere.)

          ----

          Just to ask:
          wouldn't it be nice to have a Unigine Development Kit for free for non-commercial developments? Like they do with CryEngine and UnrealEngine. (No ? Maybe just for the non-commercial-linux-devs? Because they can't easily use Cry- or UnrealEngine ...)
          This could also push Unigine and the Linux-Gaming-Market.

          ----

          Anybody thought about a live-game-disc/usb/ssd ?
          Just put a minimalistic linux-distro on the disc with e.g. the oil-rush game.
          Putting that into the pc
          -> starting the pc
          -> starting the live-disc and with that
          -> starting oil-rush
          ( like on good old consoles (put cartridge in - start - play)).
          No install - just play.
          ... good old times ...
          ^^

          ----

          Ooh, a new game.
          Do not expect anything.
          Do expect nothing at all.
          Just play it with absolutely no comparison in mind.
          Just play it like it would be your first game ever.
          Get amazed.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by miles View Post
            Maybe you can't part with the money, because your conscience tells you so. So what? Does it mean you have to be a prick, and backstab a game you haven't even seriously tried?
            I was considering pre-ordering, but now I think I am going to not pre-order the game just out of sheer spite for that whiny rant.

            Do you really believe peer-pressure will increase pre-orders of a game that won't be released until at least June?

            Comment


            • #51
              And?

              Well I never saw a single advert for it to be honest... Im an avid linux user and I have no idea what is the game is like. I heard it a few times on this site but no ratings or reviews really, So yeah - don't blame Linux when it does fail, blame the marketing... I mean mac users should have heard about this game if it was any way interesting as well.

              Just look at the web page and what it says in a google search:

              OilRush naval strategy game for Windows, Linux and PlayStation 3
              ..wow sounds boring

              enter the site and its even more boring looking - similar to some cheap forum with no attempt to wow users at all, just pre-order we want your money stuff.

              alien arena google search:

              Alien Arena is a fast, fun, and free FPS deathmatch game!
              ... keywords "fun" "fast"...

              could at least try make it sound interesting, I wonder how much of the budget was put into marketing and research :-/ especially if Linux users barely even know about it.

              -just saying like-

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Larian View Post
                Well, why shouldn't I get what I want? This argument is really bad. If I bought a game that was released for Linux, this does support Linux gaming. Or is your definition of support to buy whatever is released for Linux whether one actually wants it or not?
                I probably wasn't clear enough: there's nothing wrong with getting what you want (and paying for it). However, that's not what has been helping Mac get more games, because eventually if you can't take risks and support games that are not 100% in your confort zone, you're not helping your platform. I'm not saying you (as an individual) have to support Linux gaming - people use Linux for what they want - or even Linux itself, because there's nothing wrong in that. Some people claiming that they support Linux gaming, yet backstabing any decent games that gets released under Linux and inventing a new reason each time is different though...


                Originally posted by Larian View Post
                This is a business offer and the folks at Unigine most certainly want me (and whoever they can get) as a customer. Realize that they are making this game (and their most AWESOME engine) for multiple platforms. They didn't develop Linux support out of some sense of philanthropy. They hope to sell licenses, and cross platform compatibility sweetens the deal.
                So far, experiences the scale of Unigine has proved Linux is a cost that never pays off, so I don't agree that there's no "philanthropy" sense in it. Look at LGP, the guy has been losing his own money from day one, and has kept at it for years knowing he would never get it back. You can find that silly, and you can convince yourself that people always acts out of greed, but it's not how everyone works. Doesn't mean you have support them, but doesn't mean you have to paint everyone 100% selfish when the rational decision is obviously not supporting a platform like Linux.

                Originally posted by Larian View Post
                You have an interesting definition of "support." Consequently, I would appreciate you getting out of my wallet. You have no idea what I paid for the HIB. I believe your statements say more about your own habits than they do mine.
                The 15$ comes from the HIB numbers, don't worry, nobody cares about your bank account...

                Originally posted by Larian View Post
                What part of "I don't like this kind of game, and should not be guilt-tripped into buying it" did you miss? This wasn't about the game not being done or being done poorly (Although several people in the comments section gave me that impression of the current build.)
                So you believe everything one said in this thread was addressed solely to you? As for the current build, it's freaking solid for a beta, don't know what you're asking for.

                Originally posted by Larian View Post
                I take issue with "Boo hoo, they haz only sold 800 preorder in a week" appeal to pity.
                Didn't see it as an appeal to pity. More like a wake up call for any game developer considering Linux for anything else than an inclusion in the HIB, especially for high profile game teams, since Oil Rush is the closest to a high profile day one support we've had in a while. And maybe a wake-up call for anybody that still believe the lack of Linux support from game publishers was only due to their prejudices against the Linux market.

                It could have been any AAA game, any different genre, and you'd get similar results and endless rationalisations for why said game Linux sales failed.

                If they can't get 10 times more preorders between now and June, they'd better call it quits - they should still get good sales on PS3, considering the qualities of the game compared to the competition, and turning to the Mac market, which has always proven more welcoming, should help them too. Meanwhile, "Linux" gamers will sure find plenty of reasons why the lack of sales wasn't due to the market, but entirely to the game developer...

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by MisterIO View Post
                  Actually I doubt I've ever asked for crappy games for Linux, what I(and I guess most of the other people you're talking about) complained about was that top tier games weren't made for Linux too, that's all. The solution to that is to make a top tier game for Linux too, period. Otherwise I'm simply gonna keep my Windows partition that I never use except for games. That said, I wish the best to their game engine, it's hopefully very good and they'll find a great market for it, sure I hope so!
                  "Crappy game"?
                  Even in beta, the game shows more promises than anything the competition has in the tower defence 20$ budget. Do you call any game "crappy" unless it retails at 50$ and is supported by a massive EA ad campaign?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                    I was considering pre-ordering, but now I think I am going to not pre-order the game just out of sheer spite for that whiny rant.

                    Do you really believe peer-pressure will increase pre-orders of a game that won't be released until at least June?
                    ROTFL obviously you do believe in it... I never saw a more retarded attempt at blackmail!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by miles View Post
                      "Crappy game"?
                      Even in beta, the game shows more promises than anything the competition has in the tower defence 20$ budget. Do you call any game "crappy" unless it retails at 50$ and is supported by a massive EA ad campaign?
                      Yeah yeah, exactly what you said, that's why I love "Europa Universalis III"!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        With all the articles about Unigine Heaven running at 5 fps and how great the graphics are and stuff, I just assumed my hardware would never run anything made with this engine and didn't bother reading anything about Oilrush.

                        Am I wrong? Could I play this game on my Core i3 with the open-source Intel drivers?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          game play

                          Originally posted by binstream View Post
                          OK, wait until the release. We have our own quality level (take a look at Heaven benchmark, for example) so I would better prove that the game worth attention by a good release rather than words.
                          It proves the game looks shiny. Most of us knew that. It does not for example show us that the game play is novel or makes sense. Heck, make it a shiny tower defense game and i probably would have forked over the the $20, but for an RTS, I'd like to run it for a bit as I'm not even sure i like the genre.

                          the requirement for even an 8600GT on linux seems to be all sorts of odd. Considering about 1/4 of the results for the 2010 graphics survey were "intel"

                          http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag..._results&num=1


                          If blizzards asks for $20 for a new game for a pre-order, Its not much of a chance on my part, same goes for Atari, bioware, and a few other dev houses. While I admit your engine demos look fantastic, they are in no way indicative of game play.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by cynyr View Post
                            It proves the game looks shiny. Most of us knew that. It does not for example show us that the game play is novel or makes sense. Heck, make it a shiny tower defense game and i probably would have forked over the the $20, but for an RTS, I'd like to run it for a bit as I'm not even sure i like the genre.

                            the requirement for even an 8600GT on linux seems to be all sorts of odd. Considering about 1/4 of the results for the 2010 graphics survey were "intel"

                            http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag..._results&num=1

                            If blizzards asks for $20 for a new game for a pre-order, Its not much of a chance on my part, same goes for Atari, bioware, and a few other dev houses. While I admit your engine demos look fantastic, they are in no way indicative of game play.
                            Well since i can't find the edit button, let me add that the hardware requirments does in no way say which drivers will be needed. So it looks like radeon or that opensource nvidia one that i can't remeber how to spell are supported as long as you have one of certain type.

                            Also no info on which libC you need (not all of us run ubuntu) or for that mater any other system libs. I hope you are not bundling them as that is just asking for a huge security hole later...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by miles View Post
                              I probably wasn't clear enough: there's nothing wrong with getting what you want (and paying for it). However, that's not what has been helping Mac get more games, because eventually if you can't take risks and support games that are not 100% in your confort zone, you're not helping your platform. I'm not saying you (as an individual) have to support Linux gaming - people use Linux for what they want - or even Linux itself, because there's nothing wrong in that. Some people claiming that they support Linux gaming, yet backstabing any decent games that gets released under Linux and inventing a new reason each time is different though...
                              Miles, buddy, we seem to be embroiled in a massive misunderstanding. If I understand you correctly, you find fault with those who don't want to buy everything released for Linux. I just don't think this is a defensible position. It's not that Oil Rush isn't 100% in my comfort zone, it's that it is 100% OUTSIDE my comfort zone. It's not my thing. If I understand your reasoning correctly, am I not also preventing Photoshop from ever appearing natively for Linux by not purchasing other commercial software like CAD suites? And if I'm wrong, how are these two arguments different?

                              As to "backstabbing" games, did I do this? (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.) My apologies if I came across that way. I wrote a post intending to address a logical fallacy which drives me up the wall. That post wandered a bit, yes. But I blame my poor editing and NyQuil.

                              So far, experiences the scale of Unigine has proved Linux is a cost that never pays off, so I don't agree that there's no "philanthropy" sense in it. Look at LGP, the guy has been losing his own money from day one, and has kept at it for years knowing he would never get it back. You can find that silly, and you can convince yourself that people always acts out of greed, but it's not how everyone works. Doesn't mean you have support them, but doesn't mean you have to paint everyone 100% selfish when the rational decision is obviously not supporting a platform like Linux.
                              I believe you're overgeneralizing. I'm talking about the way businesses stay in business. If you don't maintain a profit, you go under, unless you have very deep pockets. Otherwise, the mean people come and take away your lights and water. LGP is a special case as they have a benefactor. He won't go broke working at his hobby business. (And kudos to him!) But I don't recall being pressured into buying his titles either.

                              So you believe everything one said in this thread was addressed solely to you? As for the current build, it's freaking solid for a beta, don't know what you're asking for.
                              There were enough touchstones in your post that I could identify references to my own. I'm not quite conceited enough to believe it's all about me. But as I said, word of mouth here on the forums has not been flattering. That said, the Unigine guys shouldn't be judged on a beta. I just won't be interested in the game because it's a RTS. I'd like a game that isn't an RTS.

                              [/QUOTE]
                              Didn't see it as an appeal to pity. More like a wake up call for any game developer considering Linux for anything else than an inclusion in the HIB, especially for high profile game teams, since Oil Rush is the closest to a high profile day one support we've had in a while. And maybe a wake-up call for anybody that still believe the lack of Linux support from game publishers was only due to their prejudices against the Linux market.[/QUOTE]

                              As a philosopher, I assure you it was the Appeal to Pity fallacy. Textbook definition in fact. But since you mentioned the HIB, I think we need another one to go just like the last two have. That's good stuff for getting attention for Linux. As for Oil Rush, we're not even close to having enough data to make a pronouncement. At least I don't think we are. What's it been, a week? Maybe two since preorders started, and with next to zero marketing? What kind of numbers do you think it deserves at this point? I've certainly told all my friends who like RTS about it, but that's the best I can do.

                              It could have been any AAA game, any different genre, and you'd get similar results and endless rationalisations for why said game Linux sales failed.
                              That statement is as bold as I believe it to be inaccurate. Is the game fun to play? I don't know. It wouldn't be fun for me. I've purchased almost every AAA game Linux has gotten, and look forward to the stuff coming down the pipe. Hell, I was juiced for Primal Carnage until they bailed, and I won't be buying it for Windows as a result.

                              Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, RTS isn't as popular as you think? Or that maybe after watching the demo video people don't think it looks fun? I'm in both camps, if you were wondering.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Larian View Post
                                Normally I think people give Michael a lot of unnecessary flak here, but this time I feel a need to raise an objection. Why should I buy Oil Rush? Why should I pre-order it as I've done with Minecraft? Am I supposed to feel like dirt for not throwing money at this game?

                                Frankly the game, while pretty, simply does not interest me. I applaud the work the Unigine folks have done to be sure. Of course I want the Unigine folks to succeed with their engine. However I just don't do RTS. I don't like the genre. They could have done 80,000 sales to date and I still wouldn't buy it. They could even put tits on it and I wouldn't buy it.

                                This is not a matter of me supporting Linux. If half-done, uninteresting, buggy games are what I'm being asked to spend money on so it will encourage others to come to the platform, I ask you what others you're talking about. Do we want the platform to be known as a haven for substandard developers to release things that can't gain traction elsewhere? Are we so starved and pathetic for games that we'll buy anything with a penguin on it whether we want it or not to artificially inflate sales numbers? I hope not. It's not my fault this game isn't a hit, and I'm under no obligation to make it one. Imagine for a second that we DO break out our wallets and hemorrhage money to make this game a hit, bad as it is (buggy, crashes all the time, uninteresting gameplay). Developers just might smell money and "me too" because that's what they think we want. And then we'll have GAMES! ...ones that we don't really like.

                                So here's my proposal to the developers and flamers: You make good games for Linux (i.e. Minecraft, Humble Indie Bundle), and I'll give you my money for them. Make quality games in the genres that I like and I'll throw cash at you. But don't, whatever you do, presume to guilt trip me for not buying something I don't want.
                                Great post, 100% agreed. I went ahead and pre-ordered "because it has a penguin on it", but I'm regretting my decision. I love RTS games; OilRush is extremely stable and fast at maximum detail on my HD5970 on Ubuntu; and despite all of that, I agree with you!

                                My main gripe is with the (lack of) gameplay depth. To me, it's not about the graphics, or the sounds, or the voiceovers, or the tits, or the performance, nor do I care (much) whether or not a game can run on open source drivers. To me, it's all about the gameplay.

                                OilRush simply doesn't have any gameplay, as far as I'm concerned. None! It is completely devoid of interesting mechanics. I was a little more sympathetic last time I posted about it, but the more I play it, the more clear it becomes to me that the "game" element of OilRush is little more than a facade.

                                Now I am actually an aficionado of the DemoScene, where people create 3d rendering run-throughs with amazing camera angles, awe-inspiring effects, and interesting philosophical or societal commentary. And even lacking of commentary as it is, I love watching Unigine Heaven sometimes just for the thrill of it. But what I dislike is that OilRush tries to be an interactive game, but in fact, it turns out to be little more than a DemoScene. I don't like when things pretend to be something they're not.

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