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  • #31
    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
    Like Chris Cox's explanation on why Photoshop won't be ported anytime soon: http://forums.adobe.com/message/3231810#3231810
    Que someone saying: "Nu uh... Linux is teh bomb!"

    Fix the underlying problems and companies might actually port their programs.
    That post makes it seem like it's impossible to develop software for linux unless it's CLI only. Simply not true. Sure, some of the problems he talks about are real and harmful, like deficient color management, although this is much better nowadays, bad tablet support (of course you can't realy blame linux distros per se, as this is the manufacturer's fault for not making the drivers). I don't get what he's talking about regarding bad font support, althugh in openSUSE 11.2 opentype font files (OTF) were being recognized as openoffice files, but that's already been solved. An example of comercial technical software that's been having success with its linux port: bricscad.

    But the very very wrong assumption he makes is that "Linux users are still not willing to pay for commercial software". What a huge pile of bullcrap! Linux users could very well just install pirated versions of windows if the only motivation for using linux in the first place was money. What about the humble bundle? linux users paid more than any other OS. I know for a fact that some companies would change all their computers to linux if the software they need was available. The problem is that they rely on "market research" companies to provide them with data. I highly doubt the accuracy of these "market research" companies.

    Anyway... what the hell were we talking about? Ah yes... games. Nothing more to say about that sorry.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by devius View Post
      What about the humble bundle? linux users paid more than any other OS.
      Are you seriously comparing a "pay what you want" model vs a "pay what the publisher" model? There is one heck of a difference of someone willing to pay what they want (in this case about $11) vs having to pay $700+ that the publisher wants. If Adobe offered a "pay what you want model" then that argument would hold some merit.

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      • #33
        So you also think that (all?) linux users aren't willing to pay for software? Because that was what he said, and that's the general assumption. I just used the humble bundle as an example to show that this assumption isn't true. He never said that linux users aren't willing to pay for THEIR software. There is paid software on linux, and AFAIK, someone buys it, so saying that "Linux users are still not willing to pay for commercial software" is false. Sure, there will be those who wouldn't want to pay, but I doubt the percentage will be higher than what it is on the windows side of the world.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by devius View Post
          But the very very wrong assumption he makes is that "Linux users are still not willing to pay for commercial software". What a huge pile of bullcrap! Linux users could very well just install pirated versions of windows if the only motivation for using linux in the first place was money.
          Funny that this is what you take from that post. The money aspect. You ignore the fact that there isn't a standardized color management system, that tablet support is a horrible hack, X is an archaic mess, and audio is FUBAR, lets just focus on the money.

          What about the humble bundle? linux users paid more than any other OS. I know for a fact that some companies would change all their computers to linux if the software they need was available. The problem is that they rely on "market research" companies to provide them with data. I highly doubt the accuracy of these "market research" companies.

          Anyway... what the hell were we talking about? Ah yes... games. Nothing more to say about that sorry.
          Wow, Linux users paid $4 more, I don't know about you but I am going to spend millions porting my software based on those numbers that may or may not be canned...

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
            You ignore the fact that there isn't a standardized color management system,
            Originally posted by devius
            Sure, some of the problems he talks about are real and harmful, like deficient color management, although this is much better nowadays
            There's LittleCMS.

            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
            that tablet support is a horrible hack
            Originally posted by devius
            bad tablet support (of course you can't realy blame linux distros per se, as this is the manufacturer's fault for not making the drivers)
            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
            X is an archaic mess, and audio is FUBAR,
            Yet some people still manage to make programs that use both and they work just fine. Why does everybody keep saying that audio on linux is bad? Just exactly what's wrong? I never had problems with audio. I even know that some audio engineers use linux for DAW work, so if it's all that bad and terrible why do they use it and why does it work so well for me and most other users?

            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
            Wow, Linux users paid $4 more, I don't know about you but I am going to spend millions porting my software based on those numbers that may or may not be canned...
            Once more, this time with feeling:
            That guy was saying that linux users aren't willing to pay for software. This simply isn't true because there are SOME users who would certainly pay IF the software they need was available. It wouldn't be much different than it is with windows users. Some would gladly pay, some wouldn't. People don't change just because the OS changes:

            "Hey, I used to buy software when I was using windows, but then I installed linux and now I expect all my software to be free. Yeah... that's right. I won't pay for software anymore."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
              Funny that this is what you take from that post. The money aspect. You ignore the fact that there isn't a standardized color management system, that tablet support is a horrible hack, X is an archaic mess, and audio is FUBAR, lets just focus on the money.
              How about you ignore the architecture nonsense? It's not a problem. Read the followup post written by Cox himself. It's a money problem. It almost always is.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by devius View Post
                Once more, this time with feeling:
                That guy was saying that linux users aren't willing to pay for software. This simply isn't true because there are SOME users who would certainly pay IF the software they need was available. It wouldn't be much different than it is with windows users. Some would gladly pay, some wouldn't. People don't change just because the OS changes:

                "Hey, I used to buy software when I was using windows, but then I installed linux and now I expect all my software to be free. Yeah... that's right. I won't pay for software anymore."
                OK how about you post his the gist of all his posts. Here is one just a few items down from the post you like to quote.

                Sure there are some Linux users willing to pay for software, but as you noted: most of them already do pay for Photoshop on a different OS.

                So, how many new sales would be generated to pay for the Linux port? Just moving existing licenses between OSes would not justify the cost involved.
                And that number is vanishingly small.

                So, to make the port feasible you have 2 factors available: increasing the number of users willing to pay for software, and lowering the barriers to making a port (reducing the cost). The barriers aren't super high, but reducing them would help bring in other developers. But the lack of paying customers: that's a killer problem.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  So, how many new sales would be generated to pay for the Linux port? Just moving existing licenses between OSes would not justify the cost involved.
                  And that number is vanishingly small.
                  I know you didn't said that, but if you're quoting, presumably you believe it to be true right? I actually believe that a not so vanishingly small number people would in fact change OSes if the software was available. The thing is that Windows has a bad reputation regarding stability and security. For a business this is bad because it means extra expenses due to technical support. One of the reasons people change from windows to Mac OS is the improved security and stability. On Mac, they already have a bunch of prefessional productivity software. Macs, come with an associated high price tag and running costs though. Linux, on the other hand can be run on hardware with equivalent costs to windows pcs, and all the associated advantages (upgradeability being one of them). The only problem is lack of high quality professional productivity software. Hey, GIMP and Inkscape are great, but they struggle to compete in the professional world with something that has been around for 20 years.

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                  • #39
                    Why the hell would game companies want people to switch to linux. There are people like me that will gladly buy a windows title. Dont get me wrong i would live to game on linux but it doesnt make sense to think that companies are going to go out of there way to make less money. This is not how the world works. In this situation the purchase of a linux title is the systematic loss of a windows one.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                      Why the hell would game companies want people to switch to linux. There are people like me that will gladly buy a windows title. Dont get me wrong i would live to game on linux but it doesnt make sense to think that companies are going to go out of there way to make less money. This is not how the world works. In this situation the purchase of a linux title is the systematic loss of a windows one.
                      You're presuming one thing you shouldn't... "Less money". Why would they make "less money"? If it's a systematic loss of a Windows one and you're shipping SKUs at the same time or very close to it- why would you see a loss of money? You wouldn't, L33F3R.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                        You're presuming one thing you shouldn't... "Less money". Why would they make "less money"? If it's a systematic loss of a Windows one and you're shipping SKUs at the same time or very close to it- why would you see a loss of money? You wouldn't, L33F3R.
                        assuming it costs money to pay a programmer, then yes it would, Svartalf.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by devius View Post
                          There's LittleCMS.
                          Ever tried using lcms with a color calibrator? Right, thought not.

                          Why does everybody keep saying that audio on linux is bad? Just exactly what's wrong? I never had problems with audio. I even know that some audio engineers use linux for DAW work, so if it's all that bad and terrible why do they use it and why does it work so well for me and most other users?
                          Obviously, everyone else is just wrong.


                          Once more, this time with feeling:
                          That guy was saying that linux users aren't willing to pay for software. This simply isn't true because there are SOME users who would certainly pay IF the software they need was available.
                          Here's the thing that you are missing from Chris Cox's posts, outside of the VFX/Animation studios, no one is interested in Photoshop on Linux so there is no reason to deal with the architectural problems and the added cost of porting.

                          If GameTree is similar to Transgaming's cider product, some studios may be interested in using it rather than dealing with a native port. Granted its Transgaming so they'll screw it up somehow.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                            Why does everybody keep saying that audio on linux is bad? Just exactly what's wrong? I never had problems with audio.
                            Obviously, everyone else is just wrong.
                            That wasn't a rhetorical question I asked. I really want to know what the problem is, and since you seem to know please tell me so I become more informed.

                            Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
                            Here's the thing that you are missing from Chris Cox's posts, outside of the VFX/Animation studios, no one is interested in Photoshop on Linux so there is no reason to deal with the architectural problems and the added cost of porting.
                            And in the Windows world how many users outside of the VFX/Animation studios have actually bought a legit copy of photoshop?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by devius View Post
                              That wasn't a rhetorical question I asked. I really want to know what the problem is, and since you seem to know please tell me so I become more informed.
                              We're in transition from ALSA to PulseAudio, and it's a bumpy ride. Mostly though, audio has never been better. We now have support for stuff like bluetooth headsets, changing audio devices on the fly, or even routing audio sources based on type, network audio, per-application volume management. It's still ALSA underneath, but the userspace part has been greatly improved.

                              But, this expanded scope has exposed bugs in the audio stack, and PA itself has bugs. Some people here have experienced the early transition period, where PA was pretty much unusable. So, obviously, any bug in the audio system continues to be an example of that utter brokenness.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by L33F3R View Post
                                Why the hell would game companies want people to switch to linux. There are people like me that will gladly buy a windows title. Dont get me wrong i would live to game on linux but it doesnt make sense to think that companies are going to go out of there way to make less money. This is not how the world works. In this situation the purchase of a linux title is the systematic loss of a windows one.
                                Says who? Since I've switched to Linux, I just bought less games. Bought some indie games that do run on Linux, but in general.. I wanted to play GTA IV, would have happily forked out the money on release day, but it doesn't run on Linux. Only recently it's sort-of possible to run it on Wine, but it's slow and a LOT of trouble. So much in fact I didn't succeed in getting it to run.

                                I'd say that's a lost sale.

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